How Is Demon's Souls Better Than Dark Souls?

[Kahalachan]

I know it's early to tell, but even while playing Dark Souls being all hyped and loving it, I find myself missing a few things. So post what you like more about Demon's Souls.



1. The Nexus.

This is the place where I wanna marry the Maiden in Black (or Yuria if you prefer or Biorr or a male NPC if you're into guys) and have a bunch of Monumental kids.

This new central hub type place is nicely integrated with the rest of the game and is cool and all, but I can't help but thinking nothing could beat the Nexus. The style, the music, all of it.



2. The NPCs


It's still early yes, but the blacksmith I met in Dark Souls is.......well a blacksmith. He's not this grizzled grumpy old man like Ed or Boldwin. I miss the "God bless this brave warrior" from Saint Urbain. He seemed more devout than the priest guy in Dark Souls. Biorr's boisterous laugh and warrior's spirit.

NPCs in Demon's Souls seem to have more character so far.


3. Consumables.


It seems like Dark Souls tries to give them more realistic names and make healing yourself more serious with the potion drinking. Don't you miss sticky white stuff? Touching your forehead to grass? Spice? It felt kinda silly and kinda cool.


4. Overall More Charm


I think all of what I'm saying comes down to this. You can't beat the charm of Demon's Souls.

Dark Souls is unforgiving. You can't spam roll. You can't farm grass and then spam 99 grasses cause you have a limited number of drinks. It's carefully crafted to be tougher. When you find a bonfire you're thinking "Oh thank you merciful god" or something. It's very well made, dark, tough, and awesome.

But it's similar to what we felt before and isn't our first love that charmed us to death.

[TheBigLebowski]

Well you got some good points. Currently the online part of Dark Souls is rubbish. Demons Souls wins hands down.

[onlotus]

It's to soon to tell how good pvp will be in DKS. But the game play it's self is really cool. I feel lost in this open world environment. All I can think is am I going the right way. lol

The pvp is what kept DS going for so long. Hopefully it will be just as good in DKS. But it doesn't seem like it.

[TheBigLebowski]

Originally Posted by onlotus

It's to soon to tell how good pvp will be in DKS. But the game play it's self is really cool. I feel lost in this open world environment. All I can think is am I going the right way. lol

The pvp is what kept DS going for so long. Hopefully it will be just as good in DKS. But it doesn't seem like it.

Yes, gameplay is solid! I only need some help I hate how the multiplayer isnt working that well right now...

[Scarecrow]

Are we playing the same game? lol

I summon and get summoned at least 10 times per play session.
The online is hands down better than DS. Haven't noticed any big lag, rarely does your "summoning fail," etc.

As for pvp keeping Demon's Souls going? I never entered any tournaments and played the game right up to Dark Souls release.

[Karkarov]

The match ups are determined by local connection, in other words, the game puts you in a list with every player on the planet. Any player your ping doesn't meet a certain requirement with will simply put never be an option for you to summon or invade.

Translation. Organized PVP is dead in Dark Souls, it either can't be done at all or would be beyond hard to make work.

[Slazer]

I played for a solid 8 hours after work yesterday and I only saw 1 white sign. The sign failed and everyone I dropped never was summoned. I think they dropped the ball with the servers the way they are now. Some people have great lobbies and others are not allowed to play with anyone. This is the definition of epic fail. They fixed something that didn't need fixing and ####ed it up. Anyways I have faith they will patch it again, if they don't this will be the largest disappointment in gaming history... For me at least.

If I cant co op with my friends that is ridiculously sad..... If I can't duel with my friends it's just as bad....... But if I can't even play with randoms then I have lost all faith in this game and don't plan on playin it for a very long time at all....... *slow clap*

[TheBigLebowski]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Are we playing the same game? lol

I summon and get summoned at least 10 times per play session.
The online is hands down better than DS. Haven't noticed any big lag, rarely does your "summoning fail," etc.

As for pvp keeping Demon's Souls going? I never entered any tournaments and played the game right up to Dark Souls release.

Yes and I have seen many complaints about the online atm on other forums lol.

But in the last couple of hours I have summoned and invaded 20+ games. So I think it's getting better. Btw I am in Europe, where the game is not out yet officially. And Dark S. hasn't got dedicated servers, its p2p. So that can be a pain too.

Well said Slazer. Exactly to the point.

[DQ5E]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Are we playing the same game? lol

I summon and get summoned at least 10 times per play session.
The online is hands down better than DS. Haven't noticed any big lag, rarely does your "summoning fail," etc.

As for pvp keeping Demon's Souls going? I never entered any tournaments and played the game right up to Dark Souls release.

Hey I feel the same way about dark souls and demons souls add me
PSN : DQ5E

[Lostbob 117]

Demon's souls I like more (even though I haven't played dark souls or know what it is

[Obievil]

I miss the nexus.

I dislike the clear lack of direction of what you're supposed to be doing in Darksouls. I finally went and found a guide in the wiki to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing or what to do next or just what's available to me. I wandered into Darkroot right after killing the gargoyles and got annihilated.

I like the adjusted endurance burden for rolling. 25% vrs 50% roll speed.

I like the more finely tuned PVP. Demons souls PVP did seem like more of an after thought. Although the people who are PVP'ing in DKS I'm mixed on.

There was a code of Honor in DS. As an invader if you jumped into another world who's already been invaded, you generally await the outcome, and kill the victor. While most of the invaders I've dealt with in DKS I think are the Xbox players. They will come at you 2-3 at a time which is a rough fight. I had one instance where I got irritated with a group of 3 while farming in the darkroot forest. One of the three invaders literally bowed at me while I was fighting and stood in the corner and waited. So I was only fighting two of the 3 that invaded me. When I killed one of the two remaining and the second took a fireball to the face which took him down to about 10% health; he Left - he seemed unwilling to go for a fair fight.

I had a clean fair fight with the one who waited. He followed the "code of honor" that I came to expect from Veteran DS players. And if that was any of you, I applaud and thank you for it. Despite the fact that you managed to kill me.

But the point is the one that bailed. He Jumped ship the moment he realized that it was 1 on 1. He wasn't looking for a fair fight.

I *LOVE* Anor Londo, and the Painted world. My wife refuses to watch me play unless I'm in one of those two areas. the rest creep her out.

upgrading armor and weapons is MUCH easier, No more hoping that the damn crystal lizard in 4-1 drops my pure darkmoon stone. I've killed it 30 times and nothing.

I dislike the magic charge system, it makes sense in my head for limitations, but it feels wrong. Every character ends up being a melee character if you want to be able to survive.

I'm mixed on the estus flasks.

I don't know if Parry ever existed in Demons souls, I never needed it. But I'm sure glad for it in DKS. I find the timing on it difficult to do, but when you can one shot a knight that would normally take you 3-4 backstabs to kill in one hit, it's gratifying. It makes me want to stand up and scream "WHO ELSE WANTS SOME!"

The Downward thrust when jumping off of a ledge is awesome.

Specific classes in Dark Souls is much more difficult than demon souls. A pure Wanderer/thief Dex Build is rough as hell. it's a punishing act to level that way.

Pyromancer = Royal. Most things are weak to either fire or lighting; with exception of Quelaag, and the Ceaseless Discharge.

The catacombs are a bitch, Unless you are welding an upgraded Divine weapon. Which I spent the time to grind out the souls to upgrade one to take in with me. Watching the skeletons I just killed, re-assemble themselves, made my heart drop, and I had one of those "oh... @%*&" moments.

Snippet of conversation from DS vet Kahalachan:

It's also hard to say for sure if Dark Souls is harder. We know Demon's Souls and developed a set of Demon's Souls logic. So Dark Souls is probably easier for us than it would be the average person.

So while we may not have died as often on Dark Souls, we can recognize that had we never touched Demon's Souls in our lives and jumped onto Dark Souls it would have given us more problems than Demon's Souls ever did.


I am going to agree with Kahalachan on his thoughts. I think Dark souls is easier for us than most people because we started with Demons Souls. We developed logic for it and tactical thoughts around how to deal with bosses that most new dark souls players don't develop until nearly the end.

When I asked a friend of mine who never played DS, but picked up DKS how he liked it. his only response was "&$* that game. It's not supposed to be that hard." He's not even made it to the gargoyles yet, he's still trying to get past the gate. When I explained the simple way to do it he got really annoyed.

We do think and approach this game differently than most, which creates some frustration when we struggle with something. But I think that our frustration is likely considerable less than what a new player would experience.

[Kahalachan]

Yeah WTF with the online. After I beat a tough boss I drop my stone before the area and then backtrack and find secrets. No one summons me. I may try to invade sometime and see how that goes.

Speaking of online WTF at the orange stone you have to buy from a merchant.

Merchants offer you stuff that's advantageous in your game. Armor, items, weapons, stuff to help you find secrets, etc. But having to find a merchant and buy something to rate other people's messages or leave your own to help others? Seems a bit weird that's not a standard feature anymore.

[TheBigLebowski]

Originally Posted by Kahalachan

Yeah WTF with the online. After I beat a tough boss I drop my stone before the area and then backtrack and find secrets. No one summons me. I may try to invade sometime and see how that goes.

Speaking of online WTF at the orange stone you have to buy from a merchant.

Merchants offer you stuff that's advantageous in your game. Armor, items, weapons, stuff to help you find secrets, etc. But having to find a merchant and buy something to rate other people's messages or leave your own to help others? Seems a bit weird that's not a standard feature anymore.

Even more absurd is the fact that if u try to invade and you fail to invade [the infamous "invasion failed" message] it still cost you the stone! How about that!

[Scarecrow]

Man so many tears

Seriously, you guys reinforce why there's a lot I hate about a lot of people.
As for the pvp'ers, go play Soul Calibur, your "pra0" skills in DS is nothing. Anyone can lag switch the hell out of tournaments anyway.

How good could it feel to 2 hit (and 1 hit again after second chance) in a tournament anyway?

Anyway I'm having a blast summoning and being summoned.

[Lowbacca]

You have to get get farther in. Everything is interconnected in the game. There are about the same amount of NPs. And lets be honest the ones in the first game aren't that good aside from patches. Online functionality is worse. Hands down. Combat is more fluid this time around. And slightly faster paced. Visually the game is better as well. Being a zombie is visually less annoying then a ghost. Being ghost irritates the eyes after a while. Personally, I like that the game is so different yet similar. Can't say its better, but I certainly wouldn't say it is not as good.

[BlueM00n]

If this is the case I'll have to check our Dark Souls!

[guntaniskun]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Man so many tears

Seriously, you guys reinforce why there's a lot I hate about a lot of people.
As for the pvp'ers, go play Soul Calibur, your "pra0" skills in DS is nothing. Anyone can lag switch the hell out of tournaments anyway.

How good could it feel to 2 hit (and 1 hit again after second chance) in a tournament anyway?

Anyway I'm having a blast summoning and being summoned.

dude we just want to play with our friends, i hate you.

[etong23]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Man so many tears

Seriously, you guys reinforce why there's a lot I hate about a lot of people.
As for the pvp'ers, go play Soul Calibur, your "pra0" skills in DS is nothing. Anyone can lag switch the hell out of tournaments anyway.

How good could it feel to 2 hit (and 1 hit again after second chance) in a tournament anyway?

Anyway I'm having a blast summoning and being summoned.

By reading your message make me recall my memory once I played demon's souls. I do played PvP but what make me love demon's souls actually is "Co-op". Most of my time is playing as blue phantom. That is why my NR build is always on the light side.

The game I love pvp the most is "Super Street Fighter IV AE", spending 300 hours already and stop playing for a while just after DKS released. It is so sad that my soul sign never been summoned yet.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by etong23

By reading your message make me recall my memory once I played demon's souls. I do played PvP but what make me love demon's souls actually is "Co-op". Most of my time is playing as blue phantom. That is why my NR build is always on the light side.

The game I love pvp the most is "Super Street Fighter IV AE", spending 300 hours already and stop playing for a while just after DKS released. It is so sad that my soul sign never been summoned yet.

Hey etong, long time no see
Glad you liked my post. You and I have always understood what makes Demon's Souls great. It's the story, the atmosphere, the players both co-oping and invading, and all the creativity you can come up with.

I'm having so much fun helping others in co-op and summoning into my world. With the difficulty being as high as it is in Dark Souls it really does feel even more gratifying.

By the way I'm going to pm you my PSN ID. I can't believe I haven't added you yet...

Originally Posted by guntaniskun

dude we just want to play with our friends, i hate you.

Soul Calibur IV is only $20 or $30 dollars now. You can play your friends there non stop. Think about it really. There's too many things that make playing DS like a tournament game not work. There's too many enchantments and, stuff like acid cloud, second chance, etc.

Too many things to really balance. That's why random encounters that are purely random enrich the experience better since even if the invader enchants himself to death he doesn't know what the other player is like. The other player might the perfect counter to all his enchantments. That's the beauty of the random encounter.

Originally Posted by onlotus

I summoned someone, invaded, & killed my first host tonight. But my character is still really low level. I got the Drake Sword so that helps on the grind. Man, this game is pretty cool. I think it's going to be another DS with better, well everything.

Hehe, they really do start summoning after you actually get farther than the first boss lol. It really becomes even more interesting when you get summoned/summon others a lot.

Those complaining are probably still at the first boss.

[Jumilaattori]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Man so many tears

As for the pvp'ers, go play Soul Calibur, your "pra0" skills in DS is nothing. Anyone can lag switch the hell out of tournaments anyway.

How good could it feel to 2 hit (and 1 hit again after second chance) in a tournament anyway?

Anyway I'm having a blast summoning and being summoned.

DS is a great game, I cooped and played solo about an month (best part was when I got invaded.) Then it got really boring, watching the same walls and knowing the exact spot of every enemy and their behaviour. I put the game down and went back to playing fifa. One day I was watching the world behing green glasses and DS hit my eye from the shelf, I thought that there has to be more depth in this game. I googled ds and found out that there is people @ SL 120 who only PvP. I made SL 120 toon and found the PvP scene, 1,5 years later and I was still in 4-1 dualing, I tried playing games like fallout:new vegas,mass effect 2, red dead redemption but souls was unique and it always pulled me back. We PvP cos it´s fun for us, simple as that. We did tournaments cos we are masochists. Thanks to PvP I also met many good people around the world and like a mate once said: "I´d like to think that I dont have to pay for a bed when travelling in europe".

I really dont get this quester vs PvP´er chet, it´s like xbox vs ps or football vs icehockey faukking retarted, no offence.

Here is part of the discussion between Rylie and some namco support dude.

Rylie: I've read Dark Souls is peer to peer, how would that effect summoning?
Brian: The peer-to-peer connection wouldn't affect the summoning that much, it's more so the specific conditions and multiple servers.
Brian: Not so much as a lobby, more like different servers. When starting the game, the player is randomly assigned to a server with other players.

Players around the world in the same server, everyone thought it would be very busy like constant invasions and coop. Now there´s next to none low level invasions and coop starts from anor londo, that would still be cool but when players get divided to small groups and tossed to a server randomly in an open world and when all the questers are in the way of the white covenant (Can´t be vaded) it´s f´ked up.

Dks is like DS 2.0 everything in it seems great and better than in DS, which makes me wonder why the hell did they mess up with the online so bad, the only reason I can come up with is money.

[TheBigLebowski]

Spot on Jumi! It's just money.

Well, I have to say that finally the invasions and summonings started coming! I have been invaded 20 times already and killed them all except for one crazy witch with some magic powers, ugh! Summon signs are now all over the place. I think it's because more and more players are becoming available in my region.

[Kahalachan]

Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski

Even more absurd is the fact that if u try to invade and you fail to invade [the infamous "invasion failed" message] it still cost you the stone! How about that!

WTF? That's dumb. I haven't tried invading yet. I've helped people with the bosses in the forest and each time was successful and got some humanity there.

Giant rats seem to drop humanity pretty well so there's some possibility farming there. I don't know how to farm for red orbs to invade though. So I'm trying to save the precious few I have.

[Kahalachan]

WTF. I did my first invasion and yeah Demon's Souls multiplayer is way better.

As a black phantom you can't kill any of the host's bad guys.

Well why does this matter?

I was trapped by the host's bad guys. See in Demon's Souls if some enemy has me trapped I can attack them to move them. Not here. So with me trapped and them being clueless to where I was the host and their phantoms slowly made it to the boss fog cause my invasion failed.

My 2nd invasion went great I knew the level, how to use it to my advantage and took out a host with their phantom.

I wish you could get your red orb back or something if you successfully invade. Now I have 2 left and won't invade again until I know where you can farm for it.

[Jumilaattori]

Join dark wraiths and you´ll get a stone with an unlimited powaaaar (like blackstone in ds)

[Cruan]

I dont know guys, so far I invaded several times, invasion always worked, got summoned two or three times, the only thing I dont get is: you can invade when you are human, and get summoned when youre hollowed... Dont get the meaning of this really..

[onlotus]

You can reload your game & check for your friends sign until you are on the same server.

I talked to Namco & shot an email to FromSoftware about the multiplayer aspect of DKS. The person I talked to at Namco said that they have been discussing how they should handle this problem & they might end up resolving it.

Here is Namco's number 408-235-2000 & here is a link to FromSoftware to input an inquiry about Dark Souls. http://www.fromsoftware.jp/en/inquiry/

[byno]

Originally Posted by Cruan

I dont know guys, so far I invaded several times, invasion always worked, got summoned two or three times, the only thing I dont get is: you can invade when you are human, and get summoned when youre hollowed... Dont get the meaning of this really..

I got summoned in human form but never got summoned in hollow form.

[Green__Eagle]

You need to be in human form to see summon signs, just like in Demon's Souls. However, it's harder to remain in human form in Dark Souls.

[Girlyboi]

As an overall package, Dark Souls is the superior of the two games. Demon's Souls does do a few things better though:

Online
-It's pretty common knowledge that the Dark Souls online is trash. P2P servers instead of Dedicated killed all aspects of the online right out of the gate. Hardly any signs, hardly any "ghosts," hardly any invasions, hardly any people to invade, hardly any people to help.

Nexus
-The Nexus really added a very nice atmosphere to the game in terms of setting, significance, inhabitants. Just wasn't quite re-captured in the bonfires of Dark Souls

Characters
-For the most part I found the characters pretty equal between the two, but Demon's Souls had a small handful that were a bit more memorable

[malifaux]

Valley of Defilement vs Blighttown?

eh...I wouldn't go through Blighttown again if you paid me.

Seriously though, I think this is a very mixed bag. There are many things I absolutely love about Demon's Souls that I find missing in Dark Souls. And many of the Boss battles in Dark souls are simply re-skinned bosses from DS.

Maybe DS just blew me away because I played it first? I certainly don't think DKS is bad but if i had to have just 1 of them I would take Demon's souls, no contest.

As an only halfway related note, Maiden Astrea is one of the most epic God-tier boss battles I have seen.