How Is Demon's Souls Better Than Dark Souls?

[Karkarov]

Originally Posted by Morrigan Stark

Also, so far the bosses are pretty easy with a few exceptions (I struggled vs the Gargoyles and the Stray Demon only). I am far from finished with the game, mind you, but I got most bosses on my first try (solo) and I never farmed or grinded.

Your funny Morrigan. I have some difficulties with all the bosses for the most part.... Except a few. For example the Stray Demon which I one shot, it didn't help the fatty trapped himself and let me wail on him with spells though. I find it funny one boss I was told was one of the easiest in the game killed me like 4 times but another who I was told people summon help for all the time I destroyed.

Still haven't encountered anything "flamelurker" level yet.

[onlotus]

Originally Posted by Karkarov

Your funny Morrigan. I have some difficulties with all the bosses for the most part.... Except a few. For example the Stray Demon which I one shot, it didn't help the fatty trapped himself and let me wail on him with spells though. I find it funny one boss I was told was one of the easiest in the game killed me like 4 times but another who I was told people summon help for all the time I destroyed.

Still haven't encountered anything "flamelurker" level yet.

I am not trying to spoil it for you but she is not talking about the same Stray Demon you are. At least I don't think so. lol

[MidiPour]

Originally Posted by Karkarov

Your funny Morrigan. I have some difficulties with all the bosses for the most part.... Except a few. For example the Stray Demon which I one shot, it didn't help the fatty trapped himself and let me wail on him with spells though. I find it funny one boss I was told was one of the easiest in the game killed me like 4 times but another who I was told people summon help for all the time I destroyed.

Still haven't encountered anything "flamelurker" level yet.

You're funny Morrigan.* I think Maneater was far worse than flamelurker.

[Karkarov]

You will get over the typo midi. Maneater was a joke once you realized he was weak to fire. I also say "flamelurker" in quotes for a reason. No boss in DkS has killed me more than 4 times before I got them and I have done almost all of them solo and blind, most I get on the second or third attempt too. Flamelurker had that rep for killing people alot more than 2-3 times on their first attempt especially alone.

I don't know what stray demon she could mean, I met one with that name and killed it?

[Spine-Fist]

I did alright with most of the bosses. Ornstein and Smough is the only boss that has been consistently challenging for me, and which I can find no easy gimmick to abuse.

Iron Flesh makes almost any otherwise hard boss fight in to a joke. Really a shame.

[Kahalachan]

Originally Posted by Karkarov

Your funny Morrigan. I have some difficulties with all the bosses for the most part.... Except a few. For example the Stray Demon which I one shot, it didn't help the fatty trapped himself and let me wail on him with spells though. I find it funny one boss I was told was one of the easiest in the game killed me like 4 times but another who I was told people summon help for all the time I destroyed.

Still haven't encountered anything "flamelurker" level yet.

I think different builds will have different issues with certain bosses.

Sif is not nice to mages. You have to be careful with spacing to be close enough to lock onto him and blast him with spells but out of reach of his sword. It doesn't help that he jumps to remove your lock on. Fighting close up doesn't work so well cause a mage will have lower endurance and be equipped with a shield that has weaker stability and can't take the abuse with shield raised.

Iron golem was a joke for a mage. He has nothing that could punish safely distanced soul arrows. I completely unloaded on him no problem.

I think Dark Souls is definitely tougher than Demon's Souls. They pretty much had a Maneater boss, Belfry Gargoyles, at the very beginning.


Edit: It's also hard to say for sure if Dark Souls is harder. We know Demon's Souls and developed a set of Demon's Souls logic. So Dark Souls is probably easier for us than it would be the average person.

So while we may not have died as often on Dark Souls, we can recognize that had we never touched Demon's Souls in our lives and jumped onto Dark Souls it would have given us more problems than Demon's Souls ever did.

[onlotus]

@Karkarov I don't know maybe you did 1 shot the Stray Demon but I would like to see the instant replay on that.

The thing that makes DS better than DKS is that it is the original. It was a game changer for gamers on the ps3. The true miss of DKS is that it is not DS2. They should have carried the whole story & online system over instead of taking parts of DS & putting them into DKS. The same tutorial boss in DKS 3 times is the same tutorial boss from DS. Come on man, been there done that. Really in the end it seems like I have done this all before in another game.

Umbasa, Demon's Souls!!!

[joest01]

I have too little time to really get into Dark Souls right now. There are things I like (it punishes me for not thinking twice about consuming things like humanity and lightning buff) even more than DS. Also the health flask is a nice touch. I am not happy with the combat and the way my character _feels_, I am not big on shields and rolling is a big part of my game.

So, ya, there is some good and some bad.

But overall?

I miss the Nexus.

There, I said it.

[Morrigan Stark]

Originally Posted by Karkarov

Your funny Morrigan. I have some difficulties with all the bosses for the most part.... Except a few. For example the Stray Demon which I one shot, it didn't help the fatty trapped himself and let me wail on him with spells though.

Haha, well if it got stuck Flamelurker-in-the-bones style you got kinda lucky... I don't know what level or what build you were using vs the Stray Demon to kill it so fast, but I returned to the undead asylum fairly early on with a melee character, with nothing but an unupgraded Drake Sword and almost no magic, so all I could do was chip away slowly. If I took my time and made almost zero mistakes, it was fine, but the fall itself took half my health and even immediately flasking (haha, the new grassing? ) that away often got punished. So I tried him a few times before it worked (thankfully the bonfire was just by it).

I find it funny one boss I was told was one of the easiest in the game killed me like 4 times but another who I was told people summon help for all the time I destroyed.

Which ones are those?
People have told me Sif was hard, but I near-perfected him (I think I drank just one flask). Apparently he's nastier to mages but with close-ranged combat he's a joke.

Still haven't encountered anything "flamelurker" level yet.

Even Flamelurker can be cheesed with ranged magic. To me, the Stray Demon was kinda like the Flamelurker if you fight it with pure melee. With a somewhat weak weapon he can be tough since you can only chip away patiently and can't afford mistakes. I think he's harder than Flamelurker though because he hits a lot harder (and of course you have limited flasks, in DS it's all too easy to spam those grasses). Then again, maybe if you return there at a higher level he's cake, I wouldn't know.

Originally Posted by MidiPour

You're funny Morrigan.* I think Maneater was far worse than flamelurker.

Agreed, but he can be cheesed with Firestorm. But melee only, he's/they're more annoying to fight than Flamelurker.

Originally Posted by Spine-Fist

I did alright with most of the bosses. Ornstein and Smough is the only boss that has been consistently challenging for me, and which I can find no easy gimmick to abuse.

Iron Flesh makes almost any otherwise hard boss fight in to a joke. Really a shame.

Yeah, it is (and I never even used Iron Flesh against bosses). O&S were really tough, but Smough is weak to fire, so if you focus on him and spam pyromancies and/or fire weapons he goes down fast.

Most bosses were too easy though. The Moonlight Butterfly and Priscilla were never a threat, I (literally) perfected the Iron Golem with close-range battle (and apparently he's easier with long-range?), Pinwheel went down real fast too... But then, DS bosses were also easy. If I ever quest in DS with melee, Maneater is the only boss that I still find semi-threatening (in the sense that I have to be careful and not just breeze through). With magic, they're all stupidly easy. At least it doesn't seem like there's a one-build-destroys-all theme going on in DkS.

Really in the end it seems like I have done this all before in another game.

I disagree. The environments are a lot richer, larger and more detailed. There's nothing like Anor Londo or the Painted World of Ariamis (my favourite area so far, I think, minus the stupidly easy boss) in DS. For the single-player experience, DS was great and engrossing but DkS really upped the ante. I just wish the bosses were harder but the levels themselves make up for it.

I am not happy with the combat and the way my character _feels_, I am not big on shields and rolling is a big part of my game.

Darkwood grain ring, dude.

But overall?

I miss the Nexus.

There, I said it.

There's an item later that (very minor spoiler) lets you warp from one "major" (not all, sadly) bonfire to another. I wish it supported more bonfires but I still cheered when I got it.

[MidiPour]

Originally Posted by Spine-Fist

Ornstein and Smough is the only boss that has been consistently challenging for me,

No kidding, on my first couple of bouts I consistently kept killing Smough. /headdesk

[Karkarov]

When I found the Stray Demon I had already been through anor londo and killed Orstein and Smough. I was packing a lightning iato +3 I think. If you watch my vids you will see it there eventually. I need to upload hour 9 ;p!

I also mention this thread in my Firesage Demon fight who I kill fairly easily. Something along the lines of "onlotus is smoking crack if he thought that dude was hard". I admit though I got stray demon stuck on some pile of crap, it was completely unintended, but it allowed me to wail on him with spells with little return fire. I did finish him in melee though cause I felt it was getting too cheap, especially since I did the same thing to Ornstein who has a easily manipulated ai flaw.

But Ornstein is a dick so he deserved it.

Sif though has been by far the easiest to beat for me, he never even landed 1 point of damage. Silver Knight Shield +4 with over 70 stability took care of that. I still need to do the painted world.

The boss that has killed me the most is the Gaping Maw Dragon, who is the only boss that has gotten me I think 3-4 times. Most bosses I 2-3 shot.

[onlotus]

Originally Posted by Karkarov

I also mention this thread in my Firesage Demon fight who I kill fairly easily. Something along the lines of "onlotus is smoking crack if he thought that dude was hard". I admit though I got stray demon stuck on some pile of crap, it was completely unintended, but it allowed me to wail on him with spells with little return fire. I did finish him in melee though cause I felt it was getting too cheap, especially since I did the same thing to Ornstein who has a easily manipulated ai flaw.

I just want to point out that you said you 1 shotted the stray demon. Which he is harder than in the tutorial & I just wanted to make sure you where not getting confused with the tutorial boss.

Either way I would like to see the video of you fighting the stray demon.

[Karkarov]

Originally Posted by onlotus

I just want to point out that you said you 1 shotted the stray demon. Which he is harder than in the tutorial & I just wanted to make sure you where not getting confused with the tutorial boss.

Either way I would like to see the video of you fighting the stray demon.

I didn't kill it in one hit, but I beat it on my first try. You will see all my boss fights in the let's play vids eventually. Trust me while I relentlessly own some of the bosses (pinwheel looking at you) others kick my ass very thoroughly a number of times before I kill them.

My favorite is still my first attempt on 4 kings. Boy did that go well.

Note: Actually the last half of my sens fortress vids is corrupted.... So maybe you wont see the iron golem fight. I died the first time due to camera angle, the second I just got sloppy, and I killed him mostly painlessly on the third.

[Green__Eagle]

Back to the topic question: How is Demon's Souls better than Dark Souls?

I have three platinum's for Demon's Souls; the game is addictive and the player interaction only enhances that over time. Dark Souls is not addictive and summon signs are sparse. I have no desire to view my trophies for Dark Souls nor do I have any desire to go for a Platinum in this game.

These observations may be inaccurate as time goes on because I did not play Demon's Souls on the first day it was released. I got Demon's Souls about two months after it was released to the US.

I'm playing Demon's Souls again and I was surprised when I loaded my SL 208 character and saw a blue summon sign in 4-1 as soon as I started. The summons did not fail, either! Summon failures are rare in Demon's Souls.

My first impression after finishing Dark Souls in a month and going back to Demon's Souls are these:

1) The speed of your character. It reminded me that when I started Dark Souls that I was sluggish. I miss the running jump that Dark Souls used.

2) The load screens are back. The open-world environment of Dark Souls has strengths and weaknesses. The strength is the lack of load screens and the weakness is you are not sure where to go next or that you missed an area that was important. An explanation of the sluggishness of your character may be because the game is almost constantly loading new areas of the map as you walk through the game.

3) Invasions are scarier in Demon's Souls, especially at low levels. You learned to fear black phantoms because they were usually better at Player vs. Player fighting (or had better weapons); you were just trying to defeat the enemies in the game and worried about your souls. Invasions in Dark Souls are rare (the game has only been out for a month though) and I didn't have any fear of losing souls so much as my status as being human.

4) Lack of response from human players in Dark Souls may have something to do with which platform they use. Is there cross-platform interaction? If you send a message from PS3 to Xbox do they get it? If you send a friend request to someone on another platform, do they get it? In Demon's Souls even invaders became friends, but no one from Dark Souls became a friend. Dark Souls human interaction felt like a chance encounter. Demon's Souls had the feeling of a quest.

5) The NPCs in Demon's Souls are nice and most give the game depth. The NPCs in Dark Souls are usually just merchants.

I'll wrap this up with a brief plea and a big "Thank You" to Atlus. If Demon's Souls was released on the Playstation Network it would eliminate the time for load screens and it would give additional revenue to all involved. Atlus deserves a big thanks for keeping the Demon's Souls servers up after the release of Dark Souls. I imagine the workload for the servers have dropped considerably over the past month, but I wonder if more people will come back to Demon's Souls when they get tired of Dark Souls.

[onlotus]

Demon's Soul didn't have pvp as it's focus when it was created. But man how great did it come to be overtime. It amazes me that it turned out as great as it did. You would think they would have made DKS PvP more smooth & streamlined. I did some PvP in DS the other night in the first time in about a year. It seemed so much better than DKS. DS has a counter to everything another player can do. You thought DKS would have had a counter to nullify the BS that almost always counts.

My wish for another game in the Souls series is that they make it once you have leveled up you go to arenas to pvp.

[Darmok]

The NPC's in dark souls have paths that intersect your own as you wander the game. Seigmeyer, (onion man), for instance appears in a few areas, and others, as well. And if you miss an encounter, you may miss out on an item or an opportunity for assistance. Overall the NPC's seem a more significant part of the game in DKS and I'm surprised to see a lack of acknowledgement of this.

The bosses overall are more impressive in DKS, with the exception of the Asylum, Stray, and Firesage Demon's, (being the same thing essentially). I think the Gape Dragon battle is epic! From the music to the sheer size of the thing! There remain bosses from DS that will always be classics; the Flamelurker would've fit in well in Demon Ruins. The Tower Knight would crush the Iron Golem, the False King remains intimidating, and Old King Doran, while not a boss, remains unequaled.

Upgradable armour is tremendous! I never encounter anyone in DKS that looks like me. The variety is refreshing. The open world- not knowing where to go next is a PLUS, the way I see it. Not a disadvantage. Freedom of exploration... how could that be a bad thing. It's analogous to a true life adventure.

Now, how is Demon's Souls better than Dark Souls? It's the original. It had that magic as I delved deeper into the game, a certain magic that may never again be duplicated. This has already been stated, I know. Also the afore mentioned PVP superiority.

In the next instalment, they should take the best features of both games and create something so massive that it should set the standard for years to come. You miss the nexus, yet enjoy the open world.. imagine, a nexus with archstones- each leading to an open area the likes of the entire DKS world... one can dream.

[Saishu]

There's no armor in Dark Souls quite like Yurt's. I recreated my level 25 dexterity build from Demon's Souls and it just doesn't look as nice.

[Lowbacca]

Originally Posted by Saishu

There's no armor in Dark Souls quite like Yurt's. I recreated my level 25 dexterity build from Demon's Souls and it just doesn't look as nice.

I think that gold armor is more epic. They are comparable because the npcs are similar. Also the eastern armor is really cool. If you want light armor, the warrior, wanderer and the hollow thieves clothing are all decent and cool.

[Saishu]

Lautrec's armor is okay, but I think I'll stick with the Wanderer set. It is pretty cool.

[Lostbob 117]

Demon's souls I like more (even though I haven't played dark souls or know what it is

[Obievil]

I miss the nexus.

I dislike the clear lack of direction of what you're supposed to be doing in Darksouls. I finally went and found a guide in the wiki to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing or what to do next or just what's available to me. I wandered into Darkroot right after killing the gargoyles and got annihilated.

I like the adjusted endurance burden for rolling. 25% vrs 50% roll speed.

I like the more finely tuned PVP. Demons souls PVP did seem like more of an after thought. Although the people who are PVP'ing in DKS I'm mixed on.

There was a code of Honor in DS. As an invader if you jumped into another world who's already been invaded, you generally await the outcome, and kill the victor. While most of the invaders I've dealt with in DKS I think are the Xbox players. They will come at you 2-3 at a time which is a rough fight. I had one instance where I got irritated with a group of 3 while farming in the darkroot forest. One of the three invaders literally bowed at me while I was fighting and stood in the corner and waited. So I was only fighting two of the 3 that invaded me. When I killed one of the two remaining and the second took a fireball to the face which took him down to about 10% health; he Left - he seemed unwilling to go for a fair fight.

I had a clean fair fight with the one who waited. He followed the "code of honor" that I came to expect from Veteran DS players. And if that was any of you, I applaud and thank you for it. Despite the fact that you managed to kill me.

But the point is the one that bailed. He Jumped ship the moment he realized that it was 1 on 1. He wasn't looking for a fair fight.

I *LOVE* Anor Londo, and the Painted world. My wife refuses to watch me play unless I'm in one of those two areas. the rest creep her out.

upgrading armor and weapons is MUCH easier, No more hoping that the damn crystal lizard in 4-1 drops my pure darkmoon stone. I've killed it 30 times and nothing.

I dislike the magic charge system, it makes sense in my head for limitations, but it feels wrong. Every character ends up being a melee character if you want to be able to survive.

I'm mixed on the estus flasks.

I don't know if Parry ever existed in Demons souls, I never needed it. But I'm sure glad for it in DKS. I find the timing on it difficult to do, but when you can one shot a knight that would normally take you 3-4 backstabs to kill in one hit, it's gratifying. It makes me want to stand up and scream "WHO ELSE WANTS SOME!"

The Downward thrust when jumping off of a ledge is awesome.

Specific classes in Dark Souls is much more difficult than demon souls. A pure Wanderer/thief Dex Build is rough as hell. it's a punishing act to level that way.

Pyromancer = Royal. Most things are weak to either fire or lighting; with exception of Quelaag, and the Ceaseless Discharge.

The catacombs are a bitch, Unless you are welding an upgraded Divine weapon. Which I spent the time to grind out the souls to upgrade one to take in with me. Watching the skeletons I just killed, re-assemble themselves, made my heart drop, and I had one of those "oh... @%*&" moments.

Snippet of conversation from DS vet Kahalachan:

It's also hard to say for sure if Dark Souls is harder. We know Demon's Souls and developed a set of Demon's Souls logic. So Dark Souls is probably easier for us than it would be the average person.

So while we may not have died as often on Dark Souls, we can recognize that had we never touched Demon's Souls in our lives and jumped onto Dark Souls it would have given us more problems than Demon's Souls ever did.


I am going to agree with Kahalachan on his thoughts. I think Dark souls is easier for us than most people because we started with Demons Souls. We developed logic for it and tactical thoughts around how to deal with bosses that most new dark souls players don't develop until nearly the end.

When I asked a friend of mine who never played DS, but picked up DKS how he liked it. his only response was "&$* that game. It's not supposed to be that hard." He's not even made it to the gargoyles yet, he's still trying to get past the gate. When I explained the simple way to do it he got really annoyed.

We do think and approach this game differently than most, which creates some frustration when we struggle with something. But I think that our frustration is likely considerable less than what a new player would experience.

[Green__Eagle]

... "WHO ELSE WANTS SOME?"". Classic! LOL

[RB1122]

Originally Posted by Green__Eagle

... "WHO ELSE WANTS SOME?"". Classic! LOL

YOU! You want a little? DO YA! HUHHHH!

[Digital Phoenix]

I'm only halfway through the game, but I love it!

Some basic comparisons between the two:

Demon's Souls

Better frame-rate.
More streamlined.
Better and more reliable online functionality at the time of this writing.
Better player versus player system.
Better soundtrack.
Smoother combat.

Dark Souls

Massive scale.
Immersive overworld.
Enemy variety and attacks are vastly improved.
Much longer game.
More inspired design.
Superior graphics and animations.

I'd put Dark Souls over Demon's Souls so far. I can't believe I still have so much more to go. Both are my top two favorite games of all time.

[TYPHON]

in my opinion demons souls just has a better feel as well as the co-op being better, the levels in dark souls take about 5 mins to go through with the exception of the dukes archives and anor londo

[izanagi_the_creator]

The game is much cheaper than the latter. Its $60 for Dark Souls and Demon Souls costs about $15.

[Hercules007]

I specially got a Ps to play DS as I am usually a PC player. I find Demon's Souls one of the best games I ever played. It absolutely mesmerizes me.

However, I am not very fond of PvP and have to mainly play offline as my modem just gobbles electricity and after an electricity bill of $800 I need to keep the modem/internet off as much as possible.

So mainly play offline and am so happy that this is possible with DS.

Re Dark Souls, am looking forward to getting it but first want to finish Demon's Souls. My son mentioned that Dark Souls seems more polished in a way but he thinks it may not be as 'mage friendly' as Demon's Souls due to the mana system.
I always play Mage type characters and would be really disappointed if I cannot play a Mage properly in Dark Souls due to hassles with mana. I guess in that case I will have to carry on playing Demon's Souls forever or at least till GW2 comes out.

[arctic_dan]

Pvp for dks is miserable. We need to get back together and make some DS Tournies!. Im serious.

[Girlyboi]

As an overall package, Dark Souls is the superior of the two games. Demon's Souls does do a few things better though:

Online
-It's pretty common knowledge that the Dark Souls online is trash. P2P servers instead of Dedicated killed all aspects of the online right out of the gate. Hardly any signs, hardly any "ghosts," hardly any invasions, hardly any people to invade, hardly any people to help.

Nexus
-The Nexus really added a very nice atmosphere to the game in terms of setting, significance, inhabitants. Just wasn't quite re-captured in the bonfires of Dark Souls

Characters
-For the most part I found the characters pretty equal between the two, but Demon's Souls had a small handful that were a bit more memorable

[malifaux]

Valley of Defilement vs Blighttown?

eh...I wouldn't go through Blighttown again if you paid me.

Seriously though, I think this is a very mixed bag. There are many things I absolutely love about Demon's Souls that I find missing in Dark Souls. And many of the Boss battles in Dark souls are simply re-skinned bosses from DS.

Maybe DS just blew me away because I played it first? I certainly don't think DKS is bad but if i had to have just 1 of them I would take Demon's souls, no contest.

As an only halfway related note, Maiden Astrea is one of the most epic God-tier boss battles I have seen.