Persona 5 Gender Options

[Evilkinggumby]

Wall of text has shadowed even my verbose ass.. lol...

I generally agree and have always agreed. I think as they create the new game they'll want to up the ante a bit and show gamers that the new game isn't just a rehash or cheap copy of previous games. It has to get stepped up because of the platforms it'll go on, and to satisfy the fans into thinking Atlus cares about the franchise. I think a lot of fans would love P5 if it was still ps2 era graphics with slight better resolution textures and buy it all the same, but the rest of the industry and potential buyers would laugh it away and we'd see the series return to obscurity in it's happy lil niche.

Even if they stepped it up to say, Rune Factory:Oceans on the PS3 level it'd be fine. that game is pretty and well designed, yet isn't photo-realistic or breaking any records with its visuals. Heck it's only a few notches above what we see going into the MMO's churned out every month or so from Korea and Japan nowadays.. lol.



Yet I'd be more than happy with it because there is a general feeling of care and effort in the art direction and environments. Sort of an anime poor-man's version of Oblivion(completely ignoring Scale, of course).

Now that they've tried making P3P with the dual gender option, and I am sure seen the excitement and enthusiasm it created in Japan and overseas, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an option for the next game. If not..well, then I would expect it is due to a still limited budget situation where they haven't been able to allocate the pile of moolah they wanted to from last years sales to the game and so it has to hit the wall in a few areas. Dual MC's is a great feature and a strong one to keep, but... when stacked against having to cut down the library of Persona they'd have to create, or spells, or shadows to fight, I'd understand nixxing it this time around.

P5 has a LOT of things that need to be built from the ground up.. even though Atlus has grown it is still not quite the HUGE company that it really would need to be to churn out P5 in all it's glory quickly, considering the vast amount of gaming objects and resources they would have to utilize. Look at Catherine, how many environments it takes place in, characters they made for it, and complexity of graphics for the lengthiest parts of gameplay. It was actually fairly small in comparison. But Catherine was their chance to cut their teeth and see how it all worked, see how long various models would take to build, animate and test in the engine, and now they can use that knowledge to develop all kinds of other projects coming up.

I originally posted here speculating it'd take about 2 years of work to develop P5 because of the amount of resources they'd need to amass for the game, and that was back in 2009. Now that we know they've done work on the next gen platforms and are at least brainstorming/writing up the game design I suspect we'll see the game release POSSIBLY the end of 2012 to coincide with the supposed end of the world (and so, have the significance of the game amplified with the lingering paranoia) or most likely release sometime 2013 when it has less competition(by then we'll start seeing the shift from 7th gen systems to games on the next nintendo/sony/microsoft systems).

[KenshinGirl]

Originally Posted by Manly Biceps

The videogame playing female is one of the Lord's finest creations, and you'll not talk down upon them here.

Says the man that doesn't believe in their existence, or didn't back when he ran the Luminous Arc 2 tournament. =O

I like the option of playing both genders. That seems tacked onto some games though, where playing as a girl means less options, which I don't like. Rune Factory: Tides of Destiny is a good example of that, with it forcing you to play through the game as the male lead before getting the option to play as the female after the main story. There's only 4 men to choose from to marry, compared to 10 girls when you play as a male. >_>

[trismegistus]

Originally Posted by KenshinGirl

There's only 4 men to choose from to marry, compared to 10 girls when you play as a male. >_>

Of course, this was a problem in P3P too, I'd say. And that's even before considering that one of your options is a little boy.

[Crok425]

Maybe so... and actually, the first attempt of gender option that Atlus did was Shin Megami Tensei: If...
And that was what I was talking about, it was easy to make a female MC if they only had to change some dialogues and some events.
But either way, I don't care, one protagonist is cool with me, but if they decide to make a gender choice option, I just wish they can create it right.

[monkmaster79]

If they could fully develop both a male and female route, I'd probably prefer that.
That would take a lot more work and time though and that's just not going to work for the impatient me.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by monkmaster79

If they could fully develop both a male and female route, I'd probably prefer that.
That would take a lot more work and time though and that's just going to work for the impatient me.

You know.. if they could do that similar to how they did Folklore, where you have the story told from 2 different perspectives, one a male MC and the other a female MC, that'd be really great. It doesn't so much lend itself to creating an avatar thats fully customizable, but with some ability to swap outfits and stuff, I'd be ok with that. As well I loved the "pseudo comic book" storytelling they used in Folklore, which utilized the beautiful graphics of the game rather than needing CG or hand drawn cut scenes.

[Pimpalicious1987]

I think it should have both to appeal to more people but personally I would be fine with male only.

[affinity]

if they aren't going to include gender option in Persona 5, then the main character definitely should be female.

There hasn't been a "canon" Persona female protagonist since P2:EP, that was a looong time ago.

But it isn't hard to provide gender option and get each walkthrough done right. Especially considering Persona 5 is getting bigger production values than P3P, they are more than likely to make gender options happen with strong story experiences for both.

Especially for a series like Persona, it would benefit the series and the developers to think outside the box, just as extremely successful series like The Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect provided gender options with strong MC interaction with the world and stories (of course TES has the silent protagonist style, but still the people in places like Skyrim still express a natural form of interaction and acknowledge the MC no matter what they are.)

But that's one reason why with Persona series it's even easier than what TES development involves, since the silent protagonist and single species format saves them a great deal of trouble having to voice lines for both types of MCs (like BioWare had to do for every Mass Effect.)

They just have to deal with a bit of a few extra battle voice tracks and that's it.

the Persona series can elevate into something greater than the typical one track mind RPGs out there.
Not just because there needs to be more female MCs and female MC option, but also because it doubles the value and ways to experience these rpgs, and can also broaden the audience and sales, especially if people may happen to like one type character or the other. Freedom of MC gender choice is a great feature that should not be underestimated.

[kratoscar2008]

The next MC must be a male either way and MUST remain a silent protagonist WITOUTH VOICE or DIALOGUES (Like Dragon age origins). I have no problem with a female role as long as there is another one for a male.

I love the silent protagonist to death as i really buy the idea behind the archetype and i need to be male to further develop the fantasy. I understand the need of female gamers to have a gender to go by BUT thats no excuse to let male gamers out as we are a majority.

Im sorry but Persona along Growlanser are the games i enjoy the most and losing what i love from these titles would sadden me completely.

[Iris]

Originally Posted by kratoscar2008

I understand the need of female gamers to have a gender to go by BUT thats no excuse to let male gamers out as we are a majority.

Female gamers been expected to be able to identify with male characters for years. I don't get why it's such a horrible thing for people to ask that guys try doing it the other way around for once.

[Kylaila]

Originally Posted by Iris

Female gamers been expected to be able to identify with male characters for years. I don't get why it's such a horrible thing for people to ask that guys try doing it the other way around for once.

Excellent point.

Well, I'm fine with going by majority, however did P3 not show that many males are interested in this feature, too?
Many do prefer female characters when having a choice.
But then again, this will not apply to all.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it'd elevate the series, though. The characters are really enjoyable on their own, so the MC would not spoil much of the experience (as long as the choices and actions do not go on the emotional side) At least for me.
Seeing both featured would be neat, though.



If we did want to discuss this further, I'll suggest doing that here
http://www.atlus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10043
just in case

[Yukichin]

Originally Posted by Iris

Female gamers been expected to be able to identify with male characters for years. I don't get why it's such a horrible thing for people to ask that guys try doing it the other way around for once.

THIS. I'm not even female and I completely agree; "I can't identify with a woman while playing a game" is bull#### to me, because by that logic I can't identify with a straight man, and I know I'm certainly not a Japanese schoolboy going into televisions to fight Shadows. I'm not a space marine, I'm not a man trapped in a castle with a lumbering monster after him, and I'm certainly not Samus Aran... but people still love Halo, Amnesia, and Metroid.


I'd love to have both options, but to have the social links the same, honestly. Maybe perhaps like what I've heard about Mass Effect in that way.

[TheLastMelody]

Well, I still think there should be an option, because if the gender becomes an option in most RPG's then we wouldn't have to have these kind of discussion, everyone happy and profit(some extra expenses too, but hey, worth it to make people happy, right?).

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Iris

Female gamers been expected to be able to identify with male characters for years. I don't get why it's such a horrible thing for people to ask that guys try doing it the other way around for once.

If the character talk and have a defined personality i dont mind however when the MC is a Silent Protagonist i want it to be male, im ok with games like Tomb Raider, Valkyrie Profile and other female MC games. As i said before Persona and Growlanser have all the things that i love in Videogames and i dont want that to change, i dont mind a gender selection option but if the game has to settle with a gender then i want it to be male.

[Crok425]

Originally Posted by kratoscar2008

If the character talk and have a defined personality i dont mind however when the MC is a Silent Protagonist i want it to be male, im ok with games like Tomb Raider, Valkyrie Profile and other female MC games. As i said before Persona and Growlanser have all the things that i love in Videogames and i dont want that to change, i dont mind a gender selection option but if the game has to settle with a gender then i want it to be male.

I'm playing as Maya in Eternal Punishment and I actually don't mind playing as her, the game also has a dating sim feeling in it... which of course you have to choose a male lover for her .
I understand that you like male MC to play as, but female players had to play as Naoya, Tatsuya, Minato (befor P3P) and Yu... and all of them are male, now I can see why they want at least a gender option, if there isn't a gender option, then just the female protagonist, even though I still go to a male protagonist. It wouldn't hurt anybody to change roles, you know? I mean, how many of you enjoyed playing as Hamuko in P3P? I did... it was interesting to see the game in a female point of view.

[Yukichin]

Originally Posted by kratoscar2008

If the character talk and have a defined personality i dont mind however when the MC is a Silent Protagonist i want it to be male, im ok with games like Tomb Raider, Valkyrie Profile and other female MC games. As i said before Persona and Growlanser have all the things that i love in Videogames and i dont want that to change, i dont mind a gender selection option but if the game has to settle with a gender then i want it to be male.

Again: why? What difference does it make?

[Kylaila]

Guys, let him have his opinion, why don't you?
He didn't intend to offend anyone, so he should be free to voice and keep his opinion.

It's a little mean to say it "has to be", because of majority, but that's about it.
He did say that he can relate to a male avatar much better than a female.
We did hear a few girls talking the other way 'round, so I don't see any problem with that.
(I do relate differently to full-grown characters and silent protagonists, too, though)

[Lilly]

I hope P5 has the option for either gender, as it would be the most fair. If it doesn't have the option though, and the MC is male, then its yet another game I'd have to pass on. (along with P4:Golden. D: Sorry Atlus!)

[DarkRPGMaster]

I personally don't mind either gender. Playing as a male? That's the norm, it's okay. Playing as a female? That's not very normal by JRPG standards, so I love doing it every time.

[vany]

For what i read he seems to have low self steem and resort to video game characters to build it up, Kratos i love you, feel better?

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

Again: why? What difference does it make?

Are you aware of the purpose of the silent protagonist? here check it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bi...nt_protagonist

There are two ways to go with games, either you feel that you are the director of what happen in the game world and the one were you feel you are the character. Obviously you favor the first and i the last.

As i said before (again) i overtotally buy the whole silent protagonist concept, and since the Silent Protagonist is dying i want at least that one of my favorite rpgs keep it that way. What i love about ATLUS is that they seem to support the Silent protagonist wether or not they believe in the concept or not, they use a LOT of "you" wich further ensures that the character is me.

If the MC of P5 talk and have a defined character the i wont mind if they decide to go with the female route, as long as the MC is a silent protagonist i want it to be male.

[Yukichin]

As i said before (again) i overtotally buy the whole silent protagonist concept, and since the Silent Protagonist is dying i want at least that one of my favorite rpgs keep it that way. What i love about ATLUS is that they seem to support the Silent protagonist wether or not they believe in the concept or not, they use a LOT of "you" wich further ensures that the character is me.

Except girls are constantly forced to play as men even with silent protagonists. Your logic holds no water, because using it, they don't get that same experience that you do at all.

[TheLastMelody]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

Except girls are constantly forced to play as men even with silent protagonists. Your logic holds no water, because using it, they don't get that same experience that you do at all.

Now now, most of us do know that everyone has a different opinion than themselves. Don't let his get to you ^_^

And it is true, girls are forced to play as men because men is a majority of the gamer-market. But now we should be having options, because some men like playing as female and vice versa ^_^

[Crok425]

Originally Posted by kratoscar2008

Are you aware of the purpose of the silent protagonist? here check it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bi...nt_protagonist

There are two ways to go with games, either you feel that you are the director of what happen in the game world and the one were you feel you are the character. Obviously you favor the first and i the last.

As i said before (again) i overtotally buy the whole silent protagonist concept, and since the Silent Protagonist is dying i want at least that one of my favorite rpgs keep it that way. What i love about ATLUS is that they seem to support the Silent protagonist wether or not they believe in the concept or not, they use a LOT of "you" wich further ensures that the character is me.

If the MC of P5 talk and have a defined character the i wont mind if they decide to go with the female route, as long as the MC is a silent protagonist i want it to be male.

Then the girls have to put up with it so you just can enjoy it yourself?
I don't want to argue with you, man, but that's kind of selfish. The girls that played the Persona and the SMT series had to get along as a male character in thos games. How would you feel if you spent technically 10 years playing as a girl even though you aren't one, well, they feel the same way: They are girls but they have to play as a guy, and even though it's a game, it's not very cool to always play like that. It won't kill you to do it the other way around.
Me, for example, I prefer a male character, because I'm a guy, but I don't mind playing with a female character.

[Foobar]

I play female characters as that's what I identify as, however, so long as male writers are doing female characters, even silent protagonist, they are written as males with female pronouns slapped on.

Were it not for the flip in social links in P3P and having an excursion with the girls, FemC would have been just as male as MC. FemShep might as well be a dude since she's acts and is treated as one. She has social options and thats it, though, no nights out with the girls.

If you need insight to how the opposite gender is treated, simply play and identify as the opposite gender in an MMO. Women are badgered for thier age and sex for confirmation. You'll be called "honey," "sweetie" and other really toward pet names and dudes fall all over themselves to help you. They ask for time, attention and try to gift you. This stuff is the online version of being cat called, undressed with the eyes or having the door held open for you. The mansplaining is especially fun.

Simply put - there's a difference. Play a dude and you don't get any of that. Play female to high level though and you're instantly a dude. Cuz only men take gaming that far, amirite?

For the record, though I am trans, I never used my female character to get stuff. Most girls turn the gifts down, but no one turns down quest help. Ok, I took flowers. But only because they were trying to be nice and you don't want to make it weird.

Anyway, it's a nice thought to have a sex based shell to play as, but it's not too meaningful if no one gets insight to how the other sex lives and socializes. Works well in more recent WRPGs though since sexuality is also being addressed. Atlus Japan likes to keep things hetero and from a design standpoint for social links, I'm actually fine with that. Deciding sex, time, place, wheater pattern affecting where who is - pretty much a logistical nightmare before you toss in sexuality. I'd rather just have a main cast LGBT character to see fleshed out. With a game like Skyrim, there's just too many people, so they're all strangely bi. You have a world to explore and dragons to kill, so it's just best not to sweat the details in that game. My wife is a lesbian werewolf. Done.

The option for a sex is cetainly nice, especially in my case, but not a dealbreaker as I've been forcefed male characters forever. If you pass on Lollipop Chainsaw this week because you can't be a dude... miss out on a lot of games, I guess?

[Evilkinggumby]

why are you guys arguing with his personal preferences/opinion? he's said what he prefers.. not "this is what i think atlus should always do and i don't care what anyone else likes". sheesh. He prefers the male characters, and especially if it's a silent protag, he would rather it be male. If the MC has a voice and is a real "character" you play he is ok with it being female. Really that's just his play choice. My wife loves the Fable games because she loves to dress her hero up like a blooming bafoon and do silly emotes to the townsfolk constantly.. doesn't mean stating this is also implying it's how EVERY game should be centered and played...

Originally Posted by Foobar

If you need insight to how the opposite gender is treated, simply play and identify as the opposite gender in an MMO.

This was fun to read, as I can completely agree wit this. It is a very different game when you play female characters. When I first was introduced to MMO's back in the day it was weird to hear about this, so I tried it and made a female character in my first try, Everquest, I was amused to see it proven true again and again. As time went on I even saw it with friends IRL who got into the game and tried a female character. One of my buddies actually had a sugar daddy that was starting to invest real cash for platinum to buy my friend stuff.. which (when he realized it) scared the hell out of him and stopped...

I can't say I am as "clean" as Foo though, I accepted a whole set of trash drop armor from someone with my first character because.. well i was generally a newb and had no real armor..lol. It was a gift mostly (i think) out of pity rather than a cat call.

Later I continued this and made my newer characters also female and played them as women, not so much to get free stuff and lots of attention (it was actually annoying getting private messages asking me that crap) but I found it a challenge to "live a lie" and role play a female character AND player. As a writer, it was an interesting and fun challenge to create both my character and create it's player. And when I game now, if I have the option, I do a bit of the same.

In terms of offline games, I always prefer choices. If I play through a game and loved it, I like being able to replay it and change up things to see how far the development team went to making a diverse and interesting universe. Swapping sexes, changing alignment, altering faction .. all fun stuff. Heck I've been having a blast just going feral in Skyrim playing a alternate start demon avoiding towns and living off the land... hard as hell to do.. but satisfying in a way the main quest in Skyrim wasn't..

I'd love it if they made the next game with both male and female. I suspect they'll go silent protag again but if they decided to do something like white knight chronicles where the only voicework is combat shouts and calling persona, i'd be ok with that too. And if it was fully voiced i'd be in heaven (if it was done well, which all things considered, is almost a given for Atlus).

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

Except girls are constantly forced to play as men even with silent protagonists. Your logic holds no water, because using it, they don't get that same experience that you do at all.

The point here is that i like the Silent Protagonist and understand and embrace it, i bet that most of these girls that want a female choice doesnt care if the character talk or not, they dont play the game just for the silent protagonist as i do, really i got in the Persona Series and Growlanser because of the silent protagonist (You can tell this when i Bash Growlanser 2 MC Wein because he talks, that reduced my enjoyment at least half), yes im being selfish but i wont care if series like FF, Tales or other RPGs to have female MC because they doesnt have silent protagonists because the RPG games with Silent Protagonists are RARE and i tell you if P5 either have an only female role or the MC talks then MORE likely i will skip the game.

@crow245
They dont play the games for this feature as i do, yes im being selfish but i wont have a problem if there were a LOT of rpgs with silent protagonist wich isnt the case, you can call me weirdo for playing games based on just that but this is how i feel and i cant help it.

[Iris]

Originally Posted by kratoscar2008

i bet that most of these girls that want a female choice doesnt care if the character talk or not, they dont play the game just for the silent protagonist as i do

You're making a lot of assumptions about what other people look for in their games there, dude.

[Yukichin]

why are you guys arguing with his personal preferences/opinion? he's said what he prefers.. not "this is what i think atlus should always do and i don't care what anyone else likes". sheesh. He prefers the male characters, and especially if it's a silent protag, he would rather it be male. If the MC has a voice and is a real "character" you play he is ok with it being female. Really that's just his play choice. My wife loves the Fable games because she loves to dress her hero up like a blooming bafoon and do silly emotes to the townsfolk constantly.. doesn't mean stating this is also implying it's how EVERY game should be centered and played...

We're having a discussion. Simple as that.

You're making a lot of assumptions about what other people look for in their games there, dude.

I second this.

[kratoscar2008]

Originally Posted by Iris

You're making a lot of assumptions about what other people look for in their games there, dude.

by constant visit in persona related forums is almost the norm that most people doesnt care or dislike the silent protagonist, if you arent like them im happy but the chances are slim. I consider myself the bigger supporter of the Silent Protagonist, and by checking the thread i created for it you can see that most people dont consider the silent protagonist as esencial as i do to experience games.

I do play games with women as MC like Parasite eve, OneeChambara, Rumble Roses, Tomb Raider, Valkyrie Profile, Koudelka, P2 EP and the list goes on. My problem here is that in Persona the Silent Protagonist is espected and being removed just to appeal to the masses is what bother me, same with the gender. I dont hope to direct how ATLUS make games, if they put a silent femaleMC only or a character that talk then i will probably skip the game, they would lose my support completely because it wont be the game that i loved just because they appealed to the masses.

I dont have anything agaisnt the role of women in videogames its just that i favor the male silent protagonist and as rare as it is to find rpgs with that archetype. If there is a gender option then i will be alright.