[PS3] Persona 4 Arena Will Be Region Locked

[Dorarnae]

Originally Posted by Iris

There are, technically, still options. They're not particularly great ones, but there are options. I still have both Japanese and US PS2s. It was expensive as balls and it's annoying to take up twice the shelf space, absolutely, but I considered the options and decided that being able to play imports was worth that to me.

I guess that's part of the reason I have difficulty mustering up much outrage for this - because region-locking isn't new, and honestly, a non-locked console is still the exception, not the rule, for the most part. So while I think it's awesome when that option exists, I'm not used enough to having it to take it for granted.

Gaming's an expensive hobby - always has been. And the market has always been segmented in such a way that sometimes you have to make tough calls on what playing something is worth to you, whether because of region locking or because of console exclusivity (I probably could have all the major consoles, if I felt it was worth it to me - but personally, I don't, so every now and then I watch a 360 title I like the looks of fly by and sigh wistfully and dump the money back into student loans).

this.

[Sevyne]

Originally Posted by iammako3

Uh, Lunar the Silver Star (all versions in the US) would like to dispute that. Heck, even Sera singing in Digital Devil Saga, done by Atlus, was dubbed.

And Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan! didn't even get brought over to the US, they redid it all with American songs and created the fun Elite Beat Agents.

I'm curious as to what games DO keep the vocals in Japanese when the rest is dubbed. Can't think of any off the top of my head.

Oh now you are being silly. Aside from Elite Beat Agents, none of those are very music centric to begin with and when you read my 2nd paragraph you'll notice I'm speaking about music centric games since I was quoting someone over idolmaster.

[Rinzler]

Originally Posted by 700MB

I can only hope they miraculously change their minds regarding this whole region locking business, but I doubt that will be possible considering how close we are to the release now. The discs have most likely already been printed and packed.

It's never too late. If I remember correctly, Gran Turismo 5 disc were being printed a week before it's release date then like three days before it's official release they recalled all discs and pushed the release day back a week worth of waiting again so printing can start again. I remember reading this somewhere.... Anyway's maybe Atlus can do the same... though it might be a bit difficult removing japanese track quickly.

[Crok425]

And Kingdom Hearts by the same singer... ... I'm just playing with you . Anyway... what are we talking about now? Oh yeah, region lock... I can play it now that I asked XD.

[Sevyne]

Originally Posted by Crok425

And Kingdom Hearts by the same singer... ... I'm just playing with you . Anyway... what are we talking about now? Oh yeah, region lock... I can play it now that I asked XD.

Oh you!

[Reinbach93]

Why do you hate PAL territories so much?
I'm still waiting on Devil Survivor Overclocked, and I'm damn sure I won't get the chance to play the recently announced SMT4 (at least not until a year or 2 after it comes out), given your history of PAL releases.
And now you pull this? I'm sorry, I love your games and all but I'll be buying arena used, and I'm sure others feel the same way.
How could you possibly think this could positively influence your sales figures?

[Yukichin]

Originally Posted by Reinbach93

Why do you hate PAL territories so much?
I'm still waiting on Devil Survivor Overclocked, and I'm damn sure I won't get the chance to play the recently announced SMT4 (at least not until a year or 2 after it comes out), given your history of PAL releases.

ATLUS has nothing to do with the release schedule of any of their games in the EU region. They don't have a branch there.

[Crok425]

Complain to Zen United in this case, that's the company that's localizing P4U for Europe... think before writing.

[Reinbach93]

I am more referring to the region locking, the rest of the post is just me being upset and ranting.
Really though, where is the logic in region locking a game on a system that otherwise doesn't make use of it?
If I'm going to have to wait as long for arena as I have been for Overclocked, I'm going flip right the #### out.

[Crok425]

Originally Posted by Reinbach93

I am more referring to the region locking, the rest of the post is just me being upset and ranting.
Really though, where is the logic in region locking a game on a system that otherwise doesn't make use of it?
If I'm going to have to wait as long for arena as I have been for Overclocked, I'm going flip right the #### out.

Then go to the shrink (is that how you call it?) and you'll be fine . But seriously, man... the PS3 has the option of region locking. Atlus explained why they're going to region lock the game, even if it sounds like an excuse to you. Rant and complain all you want, they're not going to change their minds... you're still going to get Arena, just be a little patient.

[Yukichin]

Originally Posted by Reinbach93

I am more referring to the region locking, the rest of the post is just me being upset and ranting.
Really though, where is the logic in region locking a game on a system that otherwise doesn't make use of it?
If I'm going to have to wait as long for arena as I have been for Overclocked, I'm going flip right the #### out.

Again: while the region lock is a valid complaint (although I doubt that THAT many people import the game)... your complaints about waiting for Overclocked aren't as much, because as I stated before, ATLUS doesn't have an EU branch.

[Reinbach93]

Originally Posted by Crok425

Then go to the shrink (is that how you call it?) and you'll be fine . But seriously, man... the PS3 has the option of region locking. Atlus explained why they're going to region lock the game, even if it sounds like an excuse to you. Rant and complain all you want, they're not going to change their minds... you're still going to get Arena, just be a little patient.

I don't think it's particularly reasonable for patience to be expected from me when there shouldn't be any need for it. I have no problems waiting for a game to come out, it's just when there's a needless delay on behalf of the company.

[Reinbach93]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

Again: while the region lock is a valid complaint (although I doubt that THAT many people import the game)... your complaints about waiting for Overclocked aren't as much, because as I stated before, ATLUS doesn't have an EU branch.

Maybe that's different to americans but as an Australian I import almost everything, and know many people in EU territories who import, because of pricing, release dates, censorship and many other stupid reasons.

[MrEman]

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

I can't entirely agree with your original logica. The problem being, how do you quantify a lost sale?

There really is no way and that's sort of a meta-point I was driving. That doesn't mean you forget about it and let it go though. With P4A, you have two things going on right now (there are more, but this is just a small example), a group of people who didn't even know the game existed taking a much closer look, because of the press the lock generated, that will generate sales that ATLUS may have not received had they not chose to light this fire. Then you have people who will legitimately follow through and not buy the game or will buy it used instead of new because of the lock.

If the game does well, which there is no doubt to me that it will, ATLUS will generally be happy, as they should be. Moving forward, say sequel time and the same occurrences and "issues" pop up, I'd be surprised if someone with a suit and a brain didn't say, "Alright guys, I'm very pleased with how well P4A did, good work. However, how can we make the next one sell to more people?" Essentially, how can they fix the divide, no matter how small it may prove to be, that the region lock (among other unforeseen issues as of yet) forced on the first game. They want both crowds buying the game in the end, that is ideal, so reason would dictate they would look to find a way to make that happen.

I've been working on an upcoming game's PC release. It's a sequel and while the first sold extremely well a few years back, still extremely populated online for both PC and consoles, we had some very simple, stupid issues keeping it from doing even better, more importantly, from being a truly great PC game. The best market for gaming right now is the console market, so generally PC titles receive little more than a sloppy port, the first game in reference here, much to my displeasure, was no different. However, games still do OK on the PC despite this, ours did exceptionally well.

The issue is that there is a sizable group of people who do not buy this stuff based on, say, principle, the die hard PC market. They are comparatively small, but no less important, they still carry and spend money like most anyone else. We want their business right along side the others so with this release we've taken great measures to go beyond a lazy, quick port. The game is a port, but it has been truly tuned to be a real PC game. Simply put, we put in a specific, lengthy amount of time just to fine tune and customize the PC version all the while console master copies were ready to be shipped off for printing. That not including the side-by-side development that was going on. To be blunt, the PC offers so many more options than consoles and we gave it everything it could handle and then some. If someone complains about this port (as I see it now, though it could prove an issue or two on release), they're just being ridiculous and that's definitely not my pride talking, that's from over 15 years of preferring PC gaming, so I know exactly why those die hard PC gamers are put off by even seemingly small things.

There is also something else we've done. The first game featured DRM, there are people who pirate/do not purchase products simply because of this too. I completely agree with them not purchasing over DRM, it's awful. DRM is the industry trying to find a way to stave off piracy but really it doesn't hinder them, it hinders the people who are being good to us by paying our bills and keeping us and our families well fed. Our first go, the game was a risk, so we went along with our publishers wishes and included DRM (it hurt us all, but you have to pick your battles in the end). This time, we told them if they wanted to include DRM, we'd just go find another publisher, since we had that leverage. Aside from the ultimatum we did give a good reason, which was very simple, we've got a very good product that people will want to purchase, that's all the DRM we need. If a pirate isn't buying quality games, then they aren't customers to begin with. Ultimately though, pirates always find a way, so it's just not worth it at all. We also are not utilizing an online pass, again, if you make a good game you don't have to lose sleep at night thinking of ways to make people keep your game in their collection, it just happens. If it's mediocre, it deserves to be on the used shelves and it's not up to us to stop that in any other way than to make a quality product.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by MrEman

There really is no way and that's sort of a meta-point I was driving. That doesn't mean you forget about it and let it go though. With P4A, you have two things going on right now (there are more, but this is just a small example), a group of people who didn't even know the game existed taking a much closer look, because of the press the lock generated, that will generate sales that ATLUS may have not received had they not chose to light this fire. Then you have people who will legitimately follow through and not buy the game or will buy it used instead of new because of the lock.

If the game does well, which there is no doubt to me that it will, ATLUS will generally be happy, as they should be. Moving forward, say sequel time and the same occurrences and "issues" pop up, I'd be surprised if someone with a suit and a brain didn't say, "Alright guys, I'm very pleased with how well P4A did, good work. However, how can we make the next one sell to more people?"

Ahh ok that I can understand I guess it is more a distinction in perspective on the matter. To me it sounded like the motivation to do it BETTER was that of "ok we failed last time, how should it have gone" as opposed to "OK the game did well. Sequel time, how can we do even BETTER?"

The rest of your post says you are actually working within the industry and making games? Good to know. I have a few friends that were in the industry (sadly one of them was at 38 studios.. ). It is interesting to hear about the efforts and history you've had with sales and DRM, though I'm not too sure that's in line with the general topic at hand.. I'd love to hear more but derailing the thread might piss some folk off lol.

I do agree with you on the fact if you make a quality game you know people want to play, DRM should not be as much of a sticking point. I mean in some circles (like the indie humble bundle and GOG games) the "drm free" tag is actually a HUGE selling point now. It's become fairly rare; when I find a game that is somewhat new and DRM free it's mindblowing. ALl I can do is stare and think "wow I don't have to jump hurdles to play the game I paid good money for?! YES!"

I would love to see dev's set up a system where if you register their game, or register the dlc for your games, blah blah they would actually supply a patcher that makes the game drm free via a one time physical media check (it scans the dvd drive to verify the disc and then patches the game to no longer need it to play). Even without such a utility, a no-dvd/no-cd hack is going to end up out there, likely with virus's attached, rewarding pirates while legits are punished.

but now i am adding to derailment I guess.. lol.

[Olethros]

Originally Posted by MrEman

mental masturbation

Whoa. I had no idea, bro. I now totally see the error of my ways and convert to your way of thinking. In fact, I think you may be my new personal hero and all around role model. How could I be so blind all this time? I mean, obviously the man with no specifics and hiding behind a pseudonym couldn't possibly be embellishing or outright making #### up, amirite?

And people accuse me of coming across as arrogant. I apparently need to up my game substantially before I can get called up to the major leagues.

[MrEman]

Gumby, to be honest, the usefulness of this thread has already ran in multiple circles. I don't think anything else could contribute to the main point anymore, it'd just be bickering and beating dead horses anymore. Both sides posed perfectly logical explanations and I can't see any more points available to hit, you know? All that's left really is off-topic discussion spawned from having dealt with each other in the thread. Plus it's always nice to finish out a heated discussion with pleasantry. No point in us moving on to future threads all bent out of shape, at one another, no matter how vehemently we (as a whole, not you an I specifically) disagree.

I hated that about 38 Studios. While I didn't particularly enjoy Kingdoms, I do know that bunch, pretty much on the whole, are ridiculously talented, far more talented than Kingdoms let on. I'd be willing to bet your friend has no trouble finding new work.

As for DRM, I could write pages upon pages about it. I'll spare this thread that, past what I've already said on the subject.

[Iduno]

Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster

I had a thought dealing with this whole thing. What if, and this is a hypothetical thing, what if the EU version ISN'T region locked? Would you think Atlus planned this whole thing out, would you think they couldn't stand the backlash, what would you think about everything?

Personally I would think a sensible descision had been made for damage control and both buy the EU version and encourage people abroad to import it in the hopes of a crazy varience in sales figures between the region free and region locked versions in the west showing up at Atlus's next meeting about the game.

It wouldn't matter if it was because they "Couldn't stand the backlash", changing your mind to back out of a foolish descision is a sign of strength, not weakness.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by Olethros

Hey Blacksmoke, question for you. Are you, by any chance, Japanese or of Japanese heritage/dissent? Not being funny, legitimately curious.

I can assure you my views are not affected by heritage.

[Olethros]

Fair enough. As I said, just curious.

[Wolfgame]

I have an NTSC-J 360 console and am interested in importing P4:Arena for that region as I can get it early, as I said , I have the appropriate console and am willing to pay the hefty import fees to do so, I shouldn't encounter any issues, since its japanese game playing on a japanese 360 I would imagine...

[Crok425]

Originally Posted by Wolfgame

I have an NTSC-J 360 console and am interested in importing P4:Arena for that region as I can get it early, as I said , I have the appropriate console and am willing to pay the hefty import fees to do so, I shouldn't encounter any issues, since its japanese game playing on a japanese 360 I would imagine...

Uh... buy the Japanese version if that's what you mean.

EDIT: Wait, I got it. Yes, it shouldn't be any problem by importing the game from Japan if your console is from that region. I'm not sure how the 360 works, but basically it should work.

[Was_An_Atlus_Fan]

Originally Posted by Wolfgame

I have an NTSC-J 360 console and am interested in importing P4:Arena for that region as I can get it early, as I said , I have the appropriate console and am willing to pay the hefty import fees to do so, I shouldn't encounter any issues, since its japanese game playing on a japanese 360 I would imagine...

I also own a Japanese Xbox 360.

And I can assure you 100% that an Xbox 360 from Japan will play Xbox 360 games from Japan.

[LoD776]

Originally Posted by Was_An_Atlus_Fan

I also own a Japanese Xbox 360.

And I can assure you 100% that an Xbox 360 from Japan will play Xbox 360 games from Japan.

That would be weird as hell if it didn't. On that note, Why did the berserk PS2 game not get a overseas release? (I know it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o of topic, but this question is now hurting my brain so I need to know)

[Was_An_Atlus_Fan]

Originally Posted by LoD776

That would be weird as hell if it didn't. On that note, Why did the berserk PS2 game not get a overseas release? (I know it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o of topic, but this question is now hurting my brain so I need to know)

What does that even have to do with Atlus period?

And its because its an anime based off a video game.

When do we ever get those aside from crappy Naruto games?

[Dorarnae]

Originally Posted by Was_An_Atlus_Fan

What does that even have to do with Atlus period?

And its because its an anime based off a video game.

When do we ever get those aside from crappy Naruto games?

sword of the berserk on dreamcast.

[LoD776]

Originally Posted by Dorarnae

sword of the berserk on dreamcast.

Okay found the answer, apparently it was too violent or something like that. Sorry, but on related note just a few more days until P4A yay. P4A comes out on the 8th in the US right?

[talos-izanagi]

Meh I'm sadder the closer the day gets. Seriously this going to suck, I always said I was never going to mix rights and whatever into video games before but now I'm going to have to not get this. This blows Atlus.

[Future Adversity]

EDIT: Got answer

[CombatGorgie]

Cool story.. How I am totally not buying this game.

How can price gouging be any more obvious? And higher living standards in Japan my ass.. Lived there for 5 years: It's a pretty ****ed up country.. You people have a lot of problems, and guess what: things like this make it even worse.

Slippery slope? You might not have one as a business, but you are definitely creating one for Japan itself.

Typical 建前 ... Pretends to care on the outside, rotten inside.

自分の国考えろ