Persona 4 Anime

[RedJ]

US Blu-Ray release to only include English dub

Cue more Persona-related riots. Again.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by RedJ

US Blu-Ray release to only include English dub

Cue more Persona-related riots. Again.

Sentai must hate sales.

Oh well, there's $60 saved.

[monkmaster79]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

Sentai must hate sales.

Oh well, there's $60 saved.

Not Sentai's fault. Aniplex forced them to remove the Japanese audio to prevent importing.
Japanese fans could save quite a bit by buying the Sentai release.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by monkmaster79

Not Sentai's fault. Aniplex forced them to remove the Japanese audio to prevent importing.
Japanese fans could save quite a bit by buying the Sentai release.

Ah, my apologies. Reverse importation paranoia rears it's ugly head again.

Except 99% of anime seems to get released here just fine with either both or the original track.

[monkmaster79]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

Ah, my apologies. Reverse importation paranoia rears it's ugly head again.

Except 99% of anime seems to get released here just fine with either both or the original track.

My guess is the combination of Aniplex, who have always had a problem with importing, and the fact the US version is coming out so soon. Usually blu-rays take a while to come out here. That gives Japanese companies a chance to sell their own releases.

[DarkRPGMaster]

Meaning another case of bad timing. Somebody REALLY needs to fix that timing...or fix the world economy, one of the two.

[unknown]

Wonder if there's any chance that they'll include dual audio in a future complete collection blu ray release.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster

Meaning another case of bad timing. Somebody REALLY needs to fix that timing...or fix the world economy, one of the two.

Tough part is you have to strike while the iron's hot and if they were to hold the other region releases of the bluray those regions are likely to have staggeringly lower sales as people move on to new things and more recently released properties. All it takes is another big hit game/anime to distract gamers and the dvd release is lost in the woods quickly...

So they seem to be pushing more and more for simultaneous or nearly so, releases to allow all regions a fair shot at sales. But this is creating new (and frustrating) trends for fans and merchants.

Eventually when we get out of this weird middle ground and the world goes almost entirely digital streaming, it'll likely be a lot easier as the only way to get any properties is by verifying your hardware region and getting the OK from the publisher to download it. Those streaming across the globe (or, semi-importing) will still have every reason to complain due to poor bandwidth conditions... but then simultaneous availability of properties in every region will just mean it's faster and better to buy locally so you can get it quick.

Ahh.. technology..

[DarkRPGMaster]

Too bad it'll be like that one scene in Spaceballs where they can't abort the self-destruct because the thing doesn't work. "Even in the future nothing works!"

[Yukichin]

What confuses me about the release is that the DVDs of P4 will still contain dual audio; it's just the Blu-Ray that won't. Guess I'll be getting the DVD release, then, unless there's a substantial difference.

[Foobar]

DVD version's also ten bucks cheaper, so there's another difference.

Once they got past the Rise/Teddie shadow encounters some of this stuff went off script in a really bad way. The whole Kubo and Naoto shadow encounters kind of lost me, well, they would have had I not played the actual game.

I mean, sure, some embellishment is OK, but when you make me think the video or stream was just edited poorly and jumped ahead an episode that's kind of your fault

Nanako's episode was fun, though. That was a good way to tie together a lot of Yu's social links together and give her some more screen time since we don't know what she really does when everyone else is away.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

What confuses me about the release is that the DVDs of P4 will still contain dual audio; it's just the Blu-Ray that won't. Guess I'll be getting the DVD release, then, unless there's a substantial difference.

Blu-ray video quality is miles ahead of DVD, if you count that.

[Nora Kisaragi]

Haha, are you kidding me?

Does anybody remember this quote?

This is NOT the beginning of a new ATLUS policy, nor do we view it as a precedent or a slippery slope.

Well they just invalidated themselves with what we're seeing here. P4A pre-order cancelled

[DarkRPGMaster]

Originally Posted by Nora Kisaragi

Haha, are you kidding me?

Does anybody remember this quote?

Well they just invalidated themselves with what we're seeing here. P4A pre-order cancelled

Yes, because anime and videogames are the same thing...

Also, read up further, it invalidates your statement on so many levels.

[Nora Kisaragi]

Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster

Yes, because anime and videogames are the same thing...

Considering I just invalidated you in the other thread, i don't see a point in repeating myself here.

All i'll say in this topic is that if Index Digital Media claims that there is no "slippery slope" then proceed to further screw up the Persona 4 series with region-lock BS, and Atlus Faithfuls like yourself try to squirm out of it by saying "B-but anime and videogames are like two totally seperate things!". I find that hilarious and it shows that they're in a fricken corner having to screw over their worth with juvenile copouts like the one you just said.

There is no excuse for what they are doing. None. Considering they just screwed over 2 localized releases of the 3 Persona 4 releases, there is nothing stopping them from doing the same thing to the last of the "trilogy", Persona 4 Golden, and i'll be more than happy to see your "reaction" then.

[DarkRPGMaster]

To say it again...

Originally Posted by DarkRPGMaster

Except you can still buy the DVD, which will have both dub and sub. If you refuse to, then again, you are a fool.

[RedJ]

It's funny because I'm fairly certain that Atlus has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is Aniplex's doing.

And I don't understand why people are so against buying the DVD anyway. It's the same exact thing for less money, and it has the Japanese audio. If people refuse to get the DVDs simply because of lower video quality, then I truly have no hope for the human race.

[Nora Kisaragi]

Originally Posted by RedJ

It's funny because I'm fairly certain that Atlus has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is Aniplex's doing.

The decision was made by the P4 Animation Production Committee, which consists of AniPlex and Index Holdings and other companies. I imagine the conversation at the committy went something like this

AniPlex: Okay, so we are going to bring Persona 4: The animation to the states

Index Holdings: Yes, the decision has been made to protect the Persona 4 brand from reverse importation, and so we would like to make the suggestion that Persona 4 The Animation be released with dubs only and lock it to the North American region.

AniPlex: But sir, haven't you seen the backlash following Persona 4: The Arena?

Index Holdings: What backlash? Trololol

It was a joint decision, Index and AniPlex both had equal say, so your precious "Atlus" agreed to this, it wasn't solely AniPlex nor was it solely Index. It was a joint decision to screw us over the second time.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by RedJ

And I don't understand why people are so against buying the DVD anyway. It's the same exact thing for less money, and it has the Japanese audio. If people refuse to get the DVDs simply because of lower video quality, then I truly have no hope for the human race.

To be fair, the quality difference is substantial. And why should people be forced to go with the lower quality release just because they want dual audio?

By your logic, we should all be happy with 240p web streams.

[DarkRPGMaster]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

To be fair, the quality difference is substantial. And why should people be forced to go with the lower quality release just because they want dual audio?

By your logic, we should all be happy with 240p web streams.

Because quality doesn't really matter when it comes to being between DVD and Blu-Ray. If it did, nobody would have the old formats. I personally still have Laserdisc, VHS, DVD, and a few other VERY old ways of viewing things, if that tells you anything.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

To be fair, the quality difference is substantial. And why should people be forced to go with the lower quality release just because they want dual audio?

By your logic, we should all be happy with 240p web streams.

This kind of frightens me. When you watch a more recently encoded dvd on a normal hdtv with either a progressive scan player or with say a xbox 30/ps3 are you REALLY so disgusted by the finite difference between the image you have and bluray? And then, do you actually think the majority of consumers who would buy anime are also of the same mind as you and so refuse to buy dvd's because of the loss?

I won't refute that bluray is an improvement over dvd, but the majority of americans are still generally in "awe" at dvd's abilities and what it looks like an hdtv. I don't think we're at a place now where everyone is abandoning dvd because it is SO HORRIBLE and to use it is a massive detriment to quality and enjoyment(which your comparison of "we should all be happy with 240p web streams" is implying). There is still a thriving dvd business out there for most modern media!

Heck I know plenty of friends who can't afford the luxury of bluray, don't see the difference when standing looking at both, and would consider someone saying being forced to play a movie on a dvd vs bluray is a massive step down as downright elitist.

I personally still have Laserdisc, VHS, DVD, and a few other VERY old ways of viewing things, if that tells you anything.

haha laserdisc.. I have a player stored with a mess of discs. I think that kind of helps you put things in perspective. Younger audiences and up and coming consumers are starting in the digital age and when your frame of reference for film and gaming is dvd and the ps2/xbox forward, I guess the requirements for quality and "acceptable " standards is very different than anyone who grew up on vhs... god.. that's it.. i'm OLD.. damn me and my oldness...

[RedJ]

Pretty much that ^. I mean, there's nothing wrong with wanting higher quality, but when that's not an option, why not just go with lower quality? Sure, it wont look as good as a Blu-Ray would, but it's certainly better than nothing.

[total_overdose]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

What confuses me about the release is that the DVDs of P4 will still contain dual audio; it's just the Blu-Ray that won't. Guess I'll be getting the DVD release, then, unless there's a substantial difference.

DVDs have varied region coding that Blu-ray does not. In terms of DVD, USA is region 1 and Japan is region 2.

Blu-rays on the other hand don't. Japan and USA are both A.

So to prevent reverse importing, it was the obvious answer for the Japan liscensor to remove the JP audio solely from the blu and not the dvd, because it's very unlikely that Japanese people have a region compatible DVD player.

[DarkRPGMaster]

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

haha laserdisc.. I have a player stored with a mess of discs. I think that kind of helps you put things in perspective. Younger audiences and up and coming consumers are starting in the digital age and when your frame of reference for film and gaming is dvd and the ps2/xbox forward, I guess the requirements for quality and "acceptable " standards is very different than anyone who grew up on vhs... god.. that's it.. i'm OLD.. damn me and my oldness...

How do you think I feel? I only turned 25 on the 10th of July, yet I know and have seen much from earlier periods of time in the ways of movies and such. Citizen Kane is still one of the most innovative films ever.

[Sevyne]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

To be fair, the quality difference is substantial. And why should people be forced to go with the lower quality release just because they want dual audio?

By your logic, we should all be happy with 240p web streams.

The difference between DVD and Blu-ray CAN be pretty big. In most animes though it really isn't. I'm not entirely sure what the resolution is for P4A, but it wasn't exactly cutting edge visually. I really doubt you'll notice a significant enough difference between the two. I've also seen some pretty poorly done Blu-ray releases where they were actually worse than the DVD.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by Sevyne

The difference between DVD and Blu-ray CAN be pretty big. In most animes though it really isn't. I'm not entirely sure what the resolution is for P4A, but it wasn't exactly cutting edge visually. I really doubt you'll notice a significant enough difference between the two. I've also seen some pretty poorly done Blu-ray releases where they were actually worse than the DVD.

Thats the thing, it fluctuates. If you compare an early generation dvd to say, a decent modern made Bluray the difference is pretty significant because those early discs were not optimized for the medium and a lot of what was created were just direct translations from vhs or the film itself. After the initial few years they started improving the quality significantly, and modern made dvd's are much better. They have less artifacting and much richer colors and better contrast.

Tonight, for kicks, we fired up my copy of Leon (the professional) that is a dvd superbit and a regular "international version" of the movie on normal dvd to see what the difference was between the two. Most noticeable differences were that the superbit was streaming at a higher Meg per second (reg did 3.3 super did 4.3) and the superbit was encoded with DTS in addition to dolby 5.1. In looking at the quality, it was noticeable, but not as noticeable as the fact that playing the same dvd on an xbox vs a ps3 was. both running on hdmi, both displaying at 720 on a lcd projector across 100" screen. It was easy to see the xbox was brighter and clearer than the ps3. They both upscale regular dvd's, but when we flip flopped the discs it actually made the regular dvd look BETTER than the superbit. Sadly neither of us have the movie on bluray to see if it was far and away much better.

I do understand that there is a visible difference between the medium, but I also still say that most people do not sit and nit pick like what I just explained between the qualities. Anime is usually both less FPS of animation and a much lower Meg per second data stream because of the lowered pallets and simpler detail that they used as compared to live action movies. So the lines in drawings are going to be crisper on bluray but it's not like the screen is a horrible mess on dvd. lol.

then again this is the board where people were screaming because Katherine's eyelashes were pixilated in the cut scenes when they played the demo back before release.. *groan*

[Sevyne]

Yeah man. People get super nitpicky over some real minor stuff. Like there was a massive uproar over Ninja Gaiden on Vita being 30fps and not 60. Honestly, I didn't even notice it. Same for Wipeout 2048. Also i missed the screaming over Katherine's eyelashes. Really?! That's just stupid.

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

This kind of frightens me. When you watch a more recently encoded dvd on a normal hdtv with either a progressive scan player or with say a xbox 30/ps3 are you REALLY so disgusted by the finite difference between the image you have and bluray?

I wouldn't say "disgusted", but it is noticeable enough to detract from the experience when I know there is a better alternative out there. Also, it "frightens" you? I don't know how you deal with real world on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

And then, do you actually think the majority of consumers who would buy anime are also of the same mind as you and so refuse to buy dvd's because of the loss?

Neither your nor I can say. Furthermore, I don't have US sales data, but Japanese sales show the blu-ray portion of anime revenue has been exponentially increasing. It was close to half in early 2011, preorder charts now show about a 70/30 split in general. This shows that, given a choice, consumers do refuse to buy DVDs because of the loss.

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

I won't refute that bluray is an improvement over dvd, but the majority of americans are still generally in "awe" at dvd's abilities and what it looks like an hdtv. I don't think we're at a place now where everyone is abandoning dvd because it is SO HORRIBLE and to use it is a massive detriment to quality and enjoyment(which your comparison of "we should all be happy with 240p web streams" is implying). There is still a thriving dvd business out there for most modern media!

Again, I don't think you can just throw around statements like the "majority of Americans" without any factual evidence. Besides, why do I even care? The issue is that choice is being taken away from consumers, regardless of whether they are the "majority" or not.

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

Heck I know plenty of friends who can't afford the luxury of bluray, don't see the difference when standing looking at both, and would consider someone saying being forced to play a movie on a dvd vs bluray is a massive step down as downright elitist.

1. I wouldn't call it a "luxury". A blu-ray player is like $50-100, HDTV's can be found for as little as $500. Heck, a 22" 1080p monitor will even show a noticeable difference between bluray/dvd.

2. Your friends are pretty judgemental if they're going to call people elitist for that. My friends would probably call them downright ignorant.

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

Tonight, for kicks, we fired up my copy of Leon (the professional) that is a dvd superbit and a regular "international version" of the movie on normal dvd to see what the difference was between the two. Most noticeable differences were that the superbit was streaming at a higher Meg per second (reg did 3.3 super did 4.3) and the superbit was encoded with DTS in addition to dolby 5.1. In looking at the quality, it was noticeable, but not as noticeable as the fact that playing the same dvd on an xbox vs a ps3 was. both running on hdmi, both displaying at 720 on a lcd projector across 100" screen. It was easy to see the xbox was brighter and clearer than the ps3. They both upscale regular dvd's, but when we flip flopped the discs it actually made the regular dvd look BETTER than the superbit. Sadly neither of us have the movie on bluray to see if it was far and away much better.

I do understand that there is a visible difference between the medium, but I also still say that most people do not sit and nit pick like what I just explained between the qualities. Anime is usually both less FPS of animation and a much lower Meg per second data stream because of the lowered pallets and simpler detail that they used as compared to live action movies. So the lines in drawings are going to be crisper on bluray but it's not like the screen is a horrible mess on dvd. lol.

You just sat and nitpicked over differences of two DVDs. What does that accomplish in a comparison of DVD and Blu-ray? Blu-ray discs easily push a bitrate of 20Mbps and have fourfold the resolution of DVD, if we're going to nitpick.

Originally Posted by RedJ

Pretty much that ^. I mean, there's nothing wrong with wanting higher quality, but when that's not an option, why not just go with lower quality? Sure, it wont look as good as a Blu-Ray would, but it's certainly better than nothing.

And that's precisely the problem. The reason it's not an option is because some licensor or another didn't like it and Sentai apparently didn't do much to help. In the end, choice is being taken away from consumers. I could quibble with you guys on the differences of blu-ray and DVD all day, but that's just going off-track.

[Saburo Hikari]

Originally Posted by RedJ

US Blu-Ray release to only include English dub

Cue more Persona-related riots. Again.

See, I'd be fine with this if it was Atlus doing the dubbing since I absolutely love the game's dub. But the thing is, it's not Atlus doing the dubbing (obviously), so I'd be scared to get a dub-only Blu-ray with bad voice acting, especially with Sentai's track record.

I guess I'll get the DVD release then. It's not like Persona 4: The Animation's graphics (or whatever the anime equivalent of "graphics" is) are a must see in HD anyway.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by Blacksmoke

Also, it "frightens" you? I don't know how you deal with real world on a regular basis.

Lots of heavy drinking. Most of it due to you and your dual audio arugments. I kill a liter of scotch a week because of you alone!

Neither your nor I can say. Furthermore, I don't have US sales data, but Japanese sales show the blu-ray portion of anime revenue has been exponentially increasing. It was close to half in early 2011, preorder charts now show about a 70/30 split in general. This shows that, given a choice, consumers do refuse to buy DVDs because of the loss.

How many years have blurays been around in Japan? And it is now only moving past 50% saturation of sales? So then if that is the case, it means no one is buying dvd's anymore! No one could stand to watch those! If 70% of a movies sales are on bluray it means 70% of japan has abandoned dvd's entirely and refuse to watch such a poor quality technology!

C'mon.. there are millions of people in the world that are buying dvd's and have been for years. And those millions are enjoying their movies and shows on them just fine. I don't need hard data to know that dvd is not DEAD yet and a lot of people are happy and reliant on them. Will they be around forever? No, but they're not in some dark minority either.

Again, I don't think you can just throw around statements like the "majority of Americans" without any factual evidence. Besides, why do I even care? The issue is that choice is being taken away from consumers, regardless of whether they are the "majority" or not.

True, I was actually just guessing and it is in all likelihood possible that America is saturated with bluray consumers and dvd is the new betamax...

I do love the fact you are forthright that you don't care about the majority, but then you are speaking out in defense of everyone having a choice taken away... funny that.

1. I wouldn't call it a "luxury". A blu-ray player is like $50-100, HDTV's can be found for as little as $500. Heck, a 22" 1080p monitor will even show a noticeable difference between bluray/dvd.

2. Your friends are pretty judgemental if they're going to call people elitist for that. My friends would probably call them downright ignorant.

LOL yeah this is a clear sign of the perspective of 2 tiers of society clashing. Normally I'd be shocked to see you throw such words around like you do. But I also recognise that as much as there are people like me, my friends, co workers, associates, and such who live paycheck to paycheck, have massive debt, and have to seriously budget to be able to eat and game, let alone splurge on going to a movie or invest in new equipment, there is still another level to society and the world where everything we do as a normal way of life is almost alien. Others live a life where $50 is no biggee and upgrading a tv to 1080p is a non event.

This is also why you can say such an investment isn't a "luxury" and be flippant about it and I can say "wow that's kind of elitest" and feel perfectly justified. I will say this is an area where we're in 2 different situations and so are not equatable or comparable, so any further discussion is going to gain little ground.

You just sat and nitpicked over differences of two DVDs. What does that accomplish in a comparison of DVD and Blu-ray? Blu-ray discs easily push a bitrate of 20Mbps and have fourfold the resolution of DVD, if we're going to nitpick.

Did you know that off the top of your head? I am beginning to sense you are an enthusiast. I am a tech enthusiast, but I also recognize that the perspective,and so "bar" that enthusiasts have set for their equipment (and thus enjoyment), is by no means reflective of the populous. It means a lot of the "important" things they get up in arms about with technology are lost to the masses the world over. What I am getting at is.. what you are saying is important and crusading to save for the sake of everyone... may be a "choice" many don't care about. I like the idea of fighting for freedoms, I just don't quite understand your true motivations.

In the end, choice is being taken away from consumers. I could quibble with you guys on the differences of blu-ray and DVD all day, but that's just going off-track.

Not really. Some see that the consumer still has a "choice" between dvd and bluray in terms of this release, you say it is not a choice, not even an option due to the different in quality. Thus the respective technologies are pitted against one another to see if you are right. Then we begin to look at societal norms to see if the majority of consumers are behind you and your plight, or if most are indifferent or happy with their choices and so you are fighting for an option they don't really care about...

In which case you are more so fighting for the "choice" for yourself and your own freedoms, and using the general consumer base as a way to bolster your plight. Which is understandable really. Some folk don't want to stand alone and go " HEY! don't take away MY freedom! I want what I want and you shouldn't rob ME of that!" but rather speak for a 'group'.

and of course the counter may be true too and I am artificially inflating the numbers and making it seem like the majority of americans are happy with dvd and current technology and not demanding bluray just yet.