Summon the fighter within: Persona 4 Arena (360, PS3) coming to N.America this summer

[blargh]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

Those two are as niche as they get - it's the college campus tourneys that give them the treatment. That, and it's really just Japan that's giving them the limelight. Hell, as I recall at last year's EVO, Arcsys games completely got shafted and upstaged by Melty Blood, of all things! Melty Blood, which hasn't received a SINGLE release outside of Japan, bolsters more popularity outside of Japan than some games that DID get released outside of Japan.

You're thinking of the EVO that was 2 years ago. Last year's EVO had BBCS2.

Anyways, I'm hype for this game. Definitely interested in w/e LE version Atlus is planning.

[John Cavil]

You're right, that was in 2010. And CS did make a return in 2011. But my point still stands.

Originally Posted by cj iwakura

There is very much a scene for both games in the US. Just because it's not thousands strong like MvC or SSFIV doesn't mean it's not there.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what it means. It's the single most competitive video game genre, and no matter one's individual preference, there will always be those with precedence.

I love both games to death, but even I don't have any illusions about this. Simply put, GG and BB are irrelevant. If they were to suddenly kill off either series for no godamn reason whatsoever, I can guarantee you the fighting game ring will continue to turn the gears as if nothing had happened.

This is a very, very demanding genre. And unless they make radical contributions, new entries will always be upstaged by those with precedence. The original GG made that contribution, but has since fallen from grace. BB made NO contributions. And I highly, highly doubt P4A (NOT the anime, Atlus. Nudge nudge) will be very relevant to the fighting ring either. It's pure fanservice, and nothing more.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

Unfortunately, that's exactly what it means. It's the single most competitive video game genre..

Hmm... what do you mean by most competitive? RTSs (mainly SC2 and Brood War) and MOBAs (mainly LoL and now DOTA2) pull in way more viewers, competitors, prize pools, tournaments than the FGC (fighting game community) does, although of course, the FGC does very well for itself. Its tournaments are more "grass root" I guess, and maybe from a player vs player perspective, the competitive aspect gets a little more heated at times. Do you mean like, among communities, it's the most popular for being competitive? I'd probably agree with that. But it certainly isn't the most popular spectator video game genre.

[John Cavil]

Well, crap. XD You're kind of right about that. Let's just say in the ballpark.

I totally didn't factor in Korea. XD But, stateside, yeah, I'd have to say fighting games are the most competitive, and there are hardly any new entries which are viable for serious competition.

[blargh]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

You're right, that was in 2010. And CS did make a return in 2011. But my point still stands.

Except do you know why it wasn't there in 2010? EVO was planning on having CT in 2010, but the BB/Dustloop community told EVO not to have BBCT b/c most of the offline BB community were playing BBCS on arcade cabinets. If it wasn't for that gap in release from arcade to console that ended up w/ the BB community telling EVO to not host their game, either MB or MvC2 wouldn't have happened that year.

EDIT: We should probably drop this off-topic-ness. >_>

[John Cavil]

Actually, from what I recall on the on-site reporting from both G4 and IGN, Melty Blood was chosen to appear due to poll results on EVO's official website a couple months prior to the event. It placed in #1. I remember, cause I was actually kind of stunned when I heard that lol.

The whole Dustloop situation? First I heard of it. And...actually, we CAN stick to this topic since indirectly related to the game. XD But, if you don't wish to personally continue, I'll respect your wishes and can it. lol

[unknown]

Preordered on Amazon, debating if I should get a fight stick or fight pad along with the game.

Hopefully it comes out early August before I start rotations.

[blargh]

@John: Since you're kinda right about the topic-ness I suppose, here's the DL topic w/ regards to BB @ EVO2010. It basically ends up being "No CS, then no BB @ EVO" from the community.

Anyways, as long as Atlus supports the offline P4A scene as much as they do for KoFXIII's, it shouldn't have the same problems that BB had.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

Well, crap. XD You're kind of right about that. Let's just say in the ballpark.

I totally didn't factor in Korea. XD But, stateside, yeah, I'd have to say fighting games are the most competitive, and there are hardly any new entries which are viable for serious competition.

I know the point you're making, and I mostly agree with you, so forgive me for going on this tangent, but I also want to state that even in the US, the numbers still belong to Starcraft 2 and League of Legends. Don't get me wrong, I love the FGC, and I enjoy watching high level UMvC3 way more than SC2, but the viewership for fighting games is way less than the two current powerhouses. Again, though, FGC brings the hype and competition way more than LoL and SC2 do.

But yeah, I wasn't going to jump into this conversation, but I follow this scene pretty closely, so I'll give my perspective. Obviously, SSIV:AE and UMvC3 will rule the scene for a bit, and SFxTekken will replace AE when it comes out next month. However, smaller games like KoF and BB still have their place, as long as people play them and the publisher or developer continues to support them. BB receives (or received, I guess) pretty decent developer support.

...And that is another important factor here. MvC3 suffered last year, from a tournament perspective, because Capcom was so bad at backing up their game and giving it proper license. So MvC3 prize packages, for the most part, sucked, so there were less tournaments, for the most part, revolving around them, which was less viewership. Now, for MvC3, that mattered less, because the viewers will watch it anyways. For the record, Capcom got their act together and are becoming very involved with their tournament scene. In fact today, they have promised $500,000 for tournaments this year. (Although to put it into perspective, Valve and Riot offer $1,000,000+ for SINGLE tournaments for DOTA2 and LoL).

For something like BB, it was (and I guess is) still showing up in the small community tournaments, because ArcSys supports it. They give swag, (supposedly) help with prize pools, give proper streaming licences, ect. Do they get 20,000 viewers like Winter Brawl last weekend got for MvC3? No, of course not. But I'm sure the fans loved it. I haven't seen GG lately, and I don't follow the GG scene. so I can't speak for that.

Our very own Atlus is another good example. KoF is one game I would probably say "oh that game can't be very popular." And, well, it isn't (Stateside). But it sure does show up at pretty much every tournament. And Atlus tends to sponsor those tournaments.

Now, do I think P4Arena will show up in US tournaments? No. Just a hunch. I'm sure Atlus would support the crap out of, but I don't think this game will do well with the serious FGC. Do I think it will show up in Japan tournaments? I have no idea. Will it be at WCG? No, WCG is a joke now anyways. Will I play it? Yeah, and I'll probably enjoy it.

Edit: Will it be at EVO2013? BB was cut for a reason, which you guys are already talking about. You can call it whatever you want, it was a lack of direct fan support specifically for Evo. The question would be whether or not P4A gets taken seriously and garners a serious competitive community, which I have already guessed as "probably not". But we'll see.

Edit 2: Also, Evo doesn't mean everything for the FGC. There are plenty of other, albeit smaller, tournies and happenings. In fact, you'll probably see an announcement of an IGN-sponsored tournament for Capcom games very, very soon. This is a good start. Oh also, MK9 is at MLG Winter, which is another good start, as they never headline FGs.

[Hausuke]

Really looking forward to it. But damn too many fighting games I want to buy. Gonna prioritize this one over any others though lol.

[Crok425]

May I ask something?
Why did change the title of the game? I understand the Mayonaka part, but, why couldn't they just name it ''The Ultimate Arena''? That way we can still call it P4U instead of P4A, since that's for the anime.

I'm not complaining, I just wanna know.

PS: I wish I can pre-order it... damn you Argentina... I'm gonna buy it no matter what...

[Enzeru]

Thank you for the name change. I wonder if P4G will have a similar change.

...Although, this makes it difficult to distinguish between P4A, the anime, and P4A, the fighting game.

[Onion of Mystery]

Can we play the "Not our problem" card? I've been holding on to that one.

Naturally, we'd like people to associate it with the one that we're actually involved with.

[Saburo Hikari]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

Good. I like the name-change. I personally would've preferred "Ultimate Midnight Arena", but this works just fine. It's simple enough. :3

EDIT: Hold on... Atlus, you guys DO realize that the logo and initials "P4A" clashes with the anime series...right? Which, by the way, just got licensed by Sentai Filmworks...right?

Maybe you SHOULD change it to my preference... =_=;;

Besides "The Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena" not working because the TV world isn't called "Mayonaka TV" in the localized version of the game, I like to think that Atlus changed the name to "Persona 4 Arena" because it also goes along with "Persona 4: The Golden" in using just one word for the subtitle. And Persona 4: The Animation technically doesn't have an "A" in its logo/abbreviation. It's just called "Persona 4: The Animation".

I'm probably thinking too much about it. But yeah, that's why I think Atlus used that name.

[Inzaghi]

Also, "P4 [The] Ultimate" makes it sound like what P4 Golden actually is. P4 Arena more directly conveys that this is a fighting game.

[Crok425]

Then why not ''The Ultimate Arena''? It still sounds like it is a fighting game.

EDIT: Wait, wait... also... are you saying that if you ever get the chance to localize P4G, you are going to call it ''Persona 4: The Ultimate''?

[Leilee]

Awesome, I'm going out to preorder this today along with Phantom Breaker for my boyfriend. He just likes collecting this genre of games and playing them all.

[Foobar]

People get used to names, but mine still isn't "Shirley" no matter how much they keep calling me that.

Stop it.

[Olethros]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Is there an actual reason you have a problem with this?

If you're just not into fighting games that's one thing, but since you're throwing out "milking" I'm forced to question it.

I'm not into fighting games. That's the reason I won't be getting it.

As for the milking comment, well you answered that yourself. I understand it's sound business practice and I don't begrudge them following through with a good strategy. At the same time, for purely selfish reasons (yeah, as a human I still have those), I'd always prefer new material. It's hard to dispute that they wrung every last possible cent out of P3 and P4 and that's all I was saying.

Seems to me like you have something else that's driving you to respond and/or comment on whatever I say in the rare instances you're actually here lately. If you have some sort of issue with me, let's have it and be done with the nonsense, eh?

[Leilee]

Hey also, did anyone kinda get any vibes that this game could potentially be similar to the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure fighting games? The personas are more like the stands of the game, or at least, that's what it kinda makes me think of looking at vids for it.

Should prove really awesome fun, maybe can enjoy a fighting game again. ^-^

[Salbert]

Originally Posted by Inzaghi

Also, "P4 [The] Ultimate" makes it sound like what P4 Golden actually is. P4 Arena more directly conveys that this is a fighting game.

You heard it here, first. ATLUS USA will be localizing Persona 4: The Golden and renaming it Persona 4: Ultimate

[Panfuricus]

Oh god, if this is like Jojo's bizarre adventure I am beyond the do want.

[Ryzuki]

Heh, looks like every time i find a opportunity to buy a game, a better one pops up.
Guess Blazblue and Catherine might have to wait a bit longer.
Thanks for localizing this Atlus. I can't see this game going too horribly wrong with ASW helping out.

[John Cavil]

Originally Posted by Olethros

I'm not into fighting games. That's the reason I won't be getting it.

As for the milking comment, well you answered that yourself. I understand it's sound business practice and I don't begrudge them following through with a good strategy. At the same time, for purely selfish reasons (yeah, as a human I still have those), I'd always prefer new material. It's hard to dispute that they wrung every last possible cent out of P3 and P4 and that's all I was saying.

Seems to me like you have something else that's driving you to respond and/or comment on whatever I say in the rare instances you're actually here lately. If you have some sort of issue with me, let's have it and be done with the nonsense, eh?

It's true. They're milking the death out of it. But...they really aren't, either.

I mean, look on the bright side of the big picture, sort of. P4 is a million times superior to the turd we call P3. At the very least, they're milking a quality product. And, unlike most milkings, they're actually putting quite a bit of effort into these things, instead of just churning s**t out.

1-The anime series. If you've seen it, then even a skeptic like you can't deny that it's a good adaptation. Video game-to-anime adaptations almost always fail. Out of the dozens of s**t I've seen (highlight on s**t), I can really name only two that worked and were damn fine (Gungrave and Sengoku Basara). P4 the animation is the third. You have to give them credit for that.

2-Since you're not into fighting games, you'll just have to take my word on this lol. No matter how many people ignore them, Arc System Works is a top tier fighting game developer. Pretty much the only one that still works with 2D fighters in a sprite format. And all of their stuff is hand-drawn. Each BlazBlue character alone, give or take, has about 1,200 frames. That's 1,200 hand-drawn images...per character. That's A LOT of work, and that's a very very mellow way of putting it. That's why most developers, even with the 2D format, still go with polygon models for fighting games. But much like how Studio Ghibli are with cel animation, ArcSys are traditionalists. Sorry dude, but that's just a wee bit too much work to really write it off as a cheap cash-grab.

3-Persona 4 The Golden. I really can't say that much for this, since it's really just a port of the original game, but at the very least, they're avoiding any and all compromises that P3P suffered. Everything is returning at 100%, with a good 35% of new original content. Out of the three, this one can most likely be called the cheap cash-grab, but look at the bigger picture. Persona 4 came very late in the PS2's life-cycle. It makes sense to give it another, more proper go-ahead. And...regardless of how many times they release it, it's a really really good game. Releasing Bioshock half a dozen times will never diminish its status as one of the best first-person-shooters of all time. Something similar could be said for Persona 4.

You call what they're doing to P4 outright "milking." But, I have to disagree somewhat slightly. See, milking is when you're taking a property, and literally squeezing the life-juice out of it. Activision milked Guitar Hero to death. That series did NOTHING new since Guitar Hero 2. The same is happening with COD. Milking is when you're abusing a franchise without putting any effort into it whatsoever.

What's going on with Persona 4 is a wee bit different. These aren't cheap, quick cash-grabs. They're just too high a quality for that. They ARE cash-grabs, but they're nowhere near as soulless as what happened with GH, CoD, or hell, even P3. If you wanna call it milking...call it goat-milking. Cause everyone knows that goat's milk is like the single healthiest thing ever.

[Olethros]

Meh. Semantics good sir. Perhaps the terminology I used was a tad on the cynical side but the fact remains that they are taking established and well conceived characters and scenarios and wringing every single possible penny out of them. The true test will be when P5 does come around and there is an obscene, almost NIS, level of meaningless and minutely, incrementally distributed dlc. If they don't go that route then I will gladly recant my milking terminology, but I strongly suspect they will.

[Zeouterlimits]

Originally Posted by John Cavil

1-The anime series. If you've seen it, then even a skeptic like you can't deny that it's a good adaptation. Video game-to-anime adaptations almost always fail. Out of the dozens of s**t I've seen (highlight on s**t), I can really name only two that worked and were damn fine (Gungrave and Sengoku Basara). P4 the animation is the third. You have to give them credit for that.

Going to have to disagree with this. It's can be a pretty cheap cash in at times. Case in point:

[Salbert]

What's to complain about? Persona 5 is coming, plus you're getting more.

[Evilkinggumby]

Originally Posted by Zeouterlimits

Going to have to disagree with this. It's can be a pretty cheap cash in at times. Case in point:

I don't know about that. Unless you can cite a slew of mistakes across the board, citing a couple across the entire series is.. kind of stretching it to say the anime was a cheap cash in. I've seen goofs in tons of anime, and in any medium for that matter. Rampant and blantant stupidities will degrade the quality but a handful of "oopsies" (which were caught and corrected later, like the one you showed) well.. are a product of their press for time and fairly low budget to get this done. Despite the rush and money issues, I'd say I have been generally happy with the anime, it has been well made, well drawn, and mostly fun to watch.

Yeah, sadly, going to have to side with JC there. I think the show isn't a cheap cash in. I've seen WAY worse work that'd qualify better for that term.

[John Cavil]

Sadly?

[Blacksmoke]

Originally Posted by Evilkinggumby

I don't know about that. Unless you can cite a slew of mistakes across the board, citing a couple across the entire series is.. kind of stretching it to say the anime was a cheap cash in. I've seen goofs in tons of anime, and in any medium for that matter. Rampant and blantant stupidities will degrade the quality but a handful of "oopsies" (which were caught and corrected later, like the one you showed) well.. are a product of their press for time and fairly low budget to get this done. Despite the rush and money issues, I'd say I have been generally happy with the anime, it has been well made, well drawn, and mostly fun to watch.

Yeah, sadly, going to have to side with JC there. I think the show isn't a cheap cash in. I've seen WAY worse work that'd qualify better for that term.

I'm just going to +1 Evilkinggumby's response or something.