No idea about the role of the ants, so confused (spoilers)

[Viserdes]

So, i have no idea what the role of the ants are nor what theyre supposed to represent. The crazy old twin ladies mention they are the pets of the witch, who turns out to be eric(a)? I just dont really understand this part of the story, is she really a witch? The ants in the game seemed to have some sort of emphasis yet there was no real explanation for them. I've seen the true K/C endings so far, so i think i have a decent grasp on the story.

[Enzeru]

I thought it was said that ants come out of the mouths of cheating men?

[Viserdes]

Yea, i remember hearing that too, but it doesnt really explain their purpose in the story, i dont know perhaps im just thinking too hard about them.

[Sing]

Maybe you're not. On a side note, does the game explain more about the two old grannies?

[Raiho]

The ants are Katherine's seeing eyes (witches were said to use animals for such things); I know Erica might of said she was the witch, but through the whole game it was suggested that it is actually Katherine who is the real witch. There is even artwork by Shigenori Soejima of her with an ant along side her.

[Sing]

I'm pretty sure the ants aren't from Katherine. It seems more likely if they were from Trisha. Then again, Enzeru's right about where some of them come from.

[Yukichin]

Originally Posted by Raiho

The ants are Katherine's seeing eyes (witches were said to use animals for such things); I know Erica might of said she was the witch, but through the whole game it was suggested that it is actually Katherine who is the real witch. There is even artwork by Shigenori Soejima of her with an ant along side her.

Katherine is completely natural. Erica, on the other hand, is transgender, has red hair, and shares the same voice actress as Midnight Venus, as well as dislikes Boss's cheating nature. They all point toward the possibility (though it's not confirmed) that she's somehow related to Ishtar.


I second the question about the two old women; they were seriously creepy.

[MSD]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

They all point toward the possibility (though it's not confirmed) that she's somehow related to Ishtar.

That is just ridiculously silly.

Why would Ishtar randomly take the form of a human baby, live a normal human life, even going through serious romantic issues and being hurt badly, and continue to hang out with her friends, and so on. All just so she can one day take a job at a bar where a demon that works under her works? That's... really ridiculous. And kinda insulting to the character of Erica, who I happen to like a lot. Not to mention, why would Ishtar start having the dreams she had a role in making?

Besides, they'd have put some hints in there if they wanted you to make a connection there. Once you figure out Erica used to be a guy, in retrospect there were tons of hints about it. There are no hints connecting Erica to Ishtar. And, I am sorry, but "same color hair and she dislikes guys that cheat" is not a hint. Neither is them having the same voice actress, as in that case Toby must be Astaroth, which is just as silly.

And what does being transgender have to do with anything? How does that make her related to demons and Goddesses? Because, sorry to break it to you, but there are a lot of transgendered people in the world. I doubt they are all related to Ishtar.

When Erica said she was the witch, it was a JOKE. She even says immediately after that she was mixing two rumors up. The whole witch thing is a red herring, it has nothing to do with the actual plot or dreams.

[Viserdes]

That's why i'm so confused about this plot point, there is obviously an emphasis on the ants and i dont really think erica was seriously a witch nor do i think Katherine was in any way related to them, yet the twins allude to this having some sort of importance in the story. It doesnt make sense to me that they'd even mention the witch or the fact that ants are the witch's pets or that they come out of the mouths of the dead if they didnt have any significance.
There are just too many instances in the game where we see close up of ants and it bothers me because i just cant wrap my head around why they are important to the plot.

[Evilkinggumby]

Well I can't say I know for sure what the mythology they were going for with the ants was, but here is a nifty link that shows a few schools of thought about Ant symbolism:

http://sherryandrea.com/ant-symbolism-and-meaning/

If you apply most of the varied perceptions to the game, they end up seeming appropriate.

I personally don't think the ants were really the construct of Cathy,Kathy or Erica specifically, but rather a spiritual or visual metaphor for Vincent, or a manifestation of his inner emotions. Sort of like having his subconscious take shape (like shadows from the persona games). You see the first ant when he is talking to Katherine in the cafe, where she bugs/forces him to focus on the real world and draws him out of his internal dialogue/subconscious thoughts(spacing out). From there I think they end up showing up in varied scenes where Vincent is struggling to come to grips with the moment in hand, or with the situation and what to do in terms of needs vs wants.

If you watch the shelf behind him over his bed, he has a number of books marked "persona", which yes could just be a subtle sight gag, but if they were implying that Vincent actually read up on Jungian philosophy(and the fact in a later stage, his "attacker" was actually him draped in black with a white half mask) then thinking of the little black ants in terms of conscious vs subconscious begins to also make more sense.

Really though, I don't know for sure, but I like that it is there to allow gamers to draw their own conclusions. That alone is a great facet of the game.

[Yukichin]

Besides, they'd have put some hints in there if they wanted you to make a connection there. Once you figure out Erica used to be a guy, in retrospect there were tons of hints about it. There are no hints connecting Erica to Ishtar. And, I am sorry, but "same color hair and she dislikes guys that cheat" is not a hint. Neither is them having the same voice actress, as in that case Toby must be Astaroth, which is just as silly.

I know that it's a joke, but play Babel mode. When you unlock Axis Mundi, apparently you're told that Ishtar has both a male and female form (read: Astaroth is Istar's male form). Who else has gender discrepancies? Erica.

I'm not saying it's totally canon or anything, but it's certainly something intriguing to think about. My main point was that Katherine is 100% human.

[Sing]

What if we're all looking too deep into this? Vincent may have kept a whole bunch of sweets in his pockets to the point where ants began stalking him. If there had to be a single person to pinpoint the blame for the ants, I'm pretty sure it's Trisha.

[Raiho]

Originally Posted by Yukichin

Katherine is completely natural. Erica, on the other hand, is transgender, has red hair, and shares the same voice actress as Midnight Venus, as well as dislikes Boss's cheating nature. They all point toward the possibility (though it's not confirmed) that she's somehow related to Ishtar.

Not that I'm implying what I said is true; just thought I'd throw the idea out there since there are a few things that suggest it.

[KiraCoil]

The ants and some of the other commentary had me convinced that Katherine was a witch, but this was apparently not the case--it was never explicitly confirmed or denied. I'd like to think she is. I mean... she looks witchy. And sometimes her timing is pretty convenient. It could be that Vincent just has a crummy apartment and shouldn't leave cake on the floor for days at a time though =/

[immoral_beast]

those two old bitties are up to no good.

they freak me out.

start gettin all cryptic on me, talking about vince's nitemares.

now how would they know about those???