What if Catherine was just one long S.link?

Evilkinggumby · 08-05-2011, 10:47 AM

I was thinking about this last night. If you eliminate the puzzle climbing portion of Catherine, and look at the story, characters, questions and relationship gameplay and rules... Does Catherine work as if it was one long Social Link in the Persona universe?

We know the game is its own entity, so I am not looking for pro's and con's about how the game is or is not a true persona game(I personally don't think it is) but rather, I am intrigued to consider the gameplay mechanics and how they might be an experimental "dry run" of how S.Links might adapt in a newer Persona game.

Would the "Chaos/Order meter work in Persona games?

How would the ranking system work as you advance?

Could each arcana have a polarity on the Chaos/Order meter that the MC would have to steer towards to advance the S.link?

Stuff like that... I put this in the Catherine thread since most of this would be filled with spoilers about moments and ideas in the Catherine game.

So.. what do YOU think?

Evilkinggumby · 08-10-2011, 05:49 PM

Lol. Guess I am alone in this line of thinking. Tho I see a few folk stopped by to at least look. That's. Ok I am used to chatting unanswered.. Hehe, Thank you to those that did pop over to take a look though.

Enzeru · 08-10-2011, 07:59 PM

To be honest it's hard to wrap my head around all that at once. I don't think S. Links need to be that complicated.

Foobar · 08-10-2011, 09:14 PM

I don't like "visual novels" and dating sims.

I don't mind dating sim elements and adventure elements in my games, but there has to be something more to be satisfying to me as a game than just the story bits - otherwise I'm playing a movie, not a video game.

crazyjavi87 · 08-11-2011, 02:12 AM

Huh. That's an interesting take on the game.

My personal take is that Vincent is pretty much the universe's plaything and they make him dance around and fail at life multiple times for it's own amusement.

The universe is a jerk.

Olethros · 08-11-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foobar

I don't like "visual novels" and dating sims.

I don't mind dating sim elements and adventure elements in my games, but there has to be something more to be satisfying to me as a game than just the story bits - otherwise I'm playing a movie, not a video game.

This exactly. As a side dish it's ok but when it gets to be a part of the main course, well, I'll usually end up eating at a different restaurant.

Evilkinggumby · 08-11-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzeru

To be honest it's hard to wrap my head around all that at once. I don't think S. Links need to be that complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foobar

I don't like "visual novels" and dating sims.

Actually I agree with you both. I wasn't trying to say every S.link would be as lengthy and in depth as Catherine is as a whole, nor that the S.links should be so convoluted it feels like more of a dating sim or visual novel. I'd prefer they have about as much presence as they did in p3 or p4.

My point was more the similarities you can see in Catherine during the social interactions and how this may be a clue as to how they would/could implement S.links in a newer Persona game.

To break it down, in the persona games, when you go out on an s.link, you talk for a bit, then the MC gets a chance to choose from 2-3 answers, responses, or actions to a given situation. When you choose something positive that is beneficial to the relationship, you see the little musical notes pop up over their head indicating how much they approved/appreciated the decision.

In Catherine when you are socialising, every so often you get a prompt to answer the person in 2 ways. When you answer you immediately see Vincent's Meter shift either towards Order or Chaos.

Seeing a similarity? I was curious if this was a reskinning/imagining of how the S.links could work.

As an example, you go out for noodles with Mutaro, a frat guy you met in Lacrosse practice. You chat for a while and he reveals that he has been neglecting this weird cut on his foot that has changed color. You can respond with:

"That's bad man, we should take you to the Campus Medical Center"

"... Whatever."

"You are an idiot for not taking care of it."

Each answer would move the pointer on your meter in a direction (either 1 notch towards order, towards chaos, or not at all). The Tarot suite that Mutaro was aligned with determines which direction you should be trying to move on the meter to complete the S.link properly.

That's more what I was wondering.. or well.. one possible example they may be moving towards. It would allow s.links to still generally play and feel the same, but also add depth to the interaction as in addition to progressing through the slink's story, you need to try and connect with them on a individual level. Failure to do so will stall or even negate the s.link until you can pray at a shrine or send them a gift basket/tickets to a show to make up for it.

Kenji · 08-13-2011, 09:51 PM

Funny thing, when I first played Persona 3 (my first MegaTen, in case I fooled you all), I was afraid for the longest time that who I hung out with and how I interacted with them would affect all of my relationships. So, when someone would say "Hey, there's someone over here, but you should stay away from them," I actually thought getting to know that person would negatively affect one of my existing S. Links.

Needless to say, I was disappointed when this turned out not to be true. This disappointment extended to the whole pass/fail (or fast/slow progress) seen throughout the games and their S. Links. The girls were too easy to handle, too. I mean, I know this is fantasy (and I could make some harsh generalizations about the intended audience for dating sims... so I'll leave it at that), but the best fantasy is informed by reality, and the way the S. Links are handled stretches the credibility.

Even if I can get the ladies to get all flustered and jump into bed with me the moment they admit they've got a thing for me, in real life. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it comes off as realistic in fiction.

Anyway, while the Law-Chaos meter might be a good step in the right direction, I generally want to see S. Links behave like people. I want the girls to be wary of my intentions, beyond the obvious faux pas. If I've been agreeing with someone for the sole purpose of getting on their good side, I want them to be able to figure it out and call me on it, putting me in a potentially bad situation. I want friends who hate each other, and place me in the middle of their pissing matches. Gimme a girlfriend who acts like a girl, and not fantasy fodder for lonely boys.

That's a lot to ask for, I know, but getting a game like I first imagined P3 was would be truly awesome (with, of course, robust dungeoneering and combat, obviously).

Evilkinggumby · 08-16-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenji

Anyway, while the Law-Chaos meter might be a good step in the right direction, I generally want to see S. Links behave like people. I want the girls to be wary of my intentions, beyond the obvious faux pas. If I've been agreeing with someone for the sole purpose of getting on their good side, I want them to be able to figure it out and call me on it, putting me in a potentially bad situation. I want friends who hate each other, and place me in the middle of their pissing matches. Gimme a girlfriend who acts like a girl, and not fantasy fodder for lonely boys.

Yeah I like what you are wanting and it'd be really kool to see that kind of complex scripting going on, or even some AI to help give the game a sense of logic and reality but.. this is Atlus... We don't see that kind of work on multi million dollar published titles.. I don't see it happening with Atlus.

Still, it'd be a helluva achievement if it did happen.. but then.. would players generally all enjoy something like that? To me the best (and worst) detail to go hand in hand with what you suggest is to make the game have an autosave function so you were forced to always deal with and suffer/benefit from your actions rather then stagger-save and try the game a few ways, then choose the best. It would allow for a lot of replay to try and get a "perfect game" and truly it would require a lot of planning, practice and finess to manage that to work AND master getting a full Persona Compendium + all s.links and a true ending...

So yeah.. THAT would be a great thing to see.

but.. not holding my breath on it.. sadly.